Linda Pevac’s DNA Surprise

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Introducing Linda Pevac and Her DNA Surprise Journey

We're all on a different part of our journey, right?

So I couldn't possibly have known what I know now at 24.

And I'm thankful.

I'm just so thankful that I kept following the thread towards health because everything was really stacked against me to not make it.

And my brother, my adoptive brother, didn't make it.

So I can't tell you what the difference is other than I am pretty tenacious and curious.

And that was the those were the very traits that my adoptive parents despised in me, but they're the very that really helped me survive.

Speaker 2

Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that explores the life altering world of unexpected DNA discoveries.

I'm your host, Alexis Ourselt.

This show centers the stories of people who've experienced NP, ES or non paternal events.

In other words, people who've learned that their biological father isn't who they thought he was.

We'll also hear from adoptees donor conceived people and the families navigating these discoveries.

Get ready to follow the incredible journeys that begin with a simple DNA test.

This is DNA surprises.

Words have power.

Language is how we make meaning of the things we've experienced.

For some, having language around DNA surprises, adoption, and donor conception help them feel less alone, and others take it even further, using the power of language to write about their experiences.

In this week's episode, I'm joined by Linda Pivac, also known by her pen name Emma Stevens.

Linda has penned 3 books about her life as a Baby Scoop era adoptee.

We discuss her DNA surprise journey and why writing has been a powerful tool in sharing her story.

If you're interested in reading Linda's books, they're LinkedIn the show notes.

Thank you for sharing your story, Linda.

Growing Up Adopted in the Baby Scoop Era

Well, hi there.

My name's Linda Pivac, AKA Emma Stevens.

I am from the Baby Scoop era.

Infant adoption, same race, US domestic.

There's always like a laundry list of things we go through.

I was adopted into a home where there was already my adoptive brother who was adopted from the same adoption agency.

And I currently live in Tulsa, OK.

Well, I've had so many reunions and so many.

There's been a lot of journeys within the whole journey.

I guess I would start with the first DNA surprise would be trying to discover who my first mother was.

I basically had to steal my own records because there was a letter that my first mother had written to the adoption agency after I was born.

But the whole time she was in the maternity home, she used a fictitious name.

And they were encouraged to do that, to not form any relationships and not to ask any too, too many questions.

And I think it just kept everyone sort of isolated.

So after I was born, my first mother wrote a letter to the agency, and she signed it for the very first time with her real name.

And if she hadn't done that, I don't know that I ever would have found her, certainly not in 1987 when all of this was going on, the first part of my journey.

Did you know grow up knowing that you were adopted?

Or did your parents tell you at some point when you were older?

How did that unfold?

Speaker 1

I was told at a very young age and it was really a story that made me very upset and sad because all I wanted to know is, is this person OK that gave me away?

Is she OK?

Does she know I'm OK?

And you know, I'm like a four year old and I'm crying.

And my adoptive parents, they were quite upset because I think in that moment, my adoptive mom knew that I had a soft spot for my first mom.

And she was like, how could that even happen?

You don't even know her.

And here you are crying for a woman that you know what my parents used to say threw you away.

Oh.

Wow.

And after that point of finding out that, yes, you're adopted, then it was like, close the book.

We're never going to speak of this again.

So it was very taboo, you know, very shameful that they made me feel shameful if I ever, ever brought it up.

So I very seldom ever brought it up, but I always knew that I would search someday and I that we all search and even the most basic ways of looking at our eyes in the mirror, looking at the grocery store, those that Lady kind of has similar eyes.

I wonder if she's my mom.

And so that just really the momentum grew until right after college, that's when I knew it was my time.

I was going to start a for real search.

And that's what I did.

You said you kind of had to steal your your records and you find.

Stealing Records to Find Her First Mother

Yeah, Cover.

I mean, my parents had no idea I was doing any of this.

I didn't let very many people know I was doing my search.

So it was all under wraps.

And in 1987, there was no computer.

There was no anything but just a phone book, a phone call, writing letters.

And I kept getting brick wall, brick wall.

So what I decided to do was to go to the adoption agency that was about 10 hours away from where I lived.

And you know, I was a pretty big deal for a 24 year old to jump in her car and drive alone to Denver collar and was able to go to the adoption agency that I knew I was adopted from.

And the woman there showed me the letter that my first mom had written and she had redacted the last name.

And so right then I never knew that letter existed.

So at that point I knew I had to have that letter with the true signature.

And all the way back home, 10 hours of driving, I kept thinking how, how can I get that letter?

And so it came to be that a boyfriend that lived in Denver, we did this heist together and went in the cover of night.

And like I said, there was not the security cameras were the big locks on the door or any kind of security really what at all.

So it's fairly easy to break in, and I somehow knew where to go to find all this film that I took to the library and was able to copy my adoption file, and then I broke back in and put the files back where they were.

How?

Nice of you.

Yeah.

OK, so you get your information.

What happens next?

I couldn't read her Dang name on the letter, it was so fuzzy.

It was because it was 24 years old and I could make out the first name.

Then I thought I I don't, I can't figure out what the second name is.

So I go to a graphologist who is a handwriting expert and she was able to tell me with like 99% accuracy of what that last name was and it ended up being true.

She was able to give me the last name and there was a little more searching involved, but I did find her and she was indeed my first mom.

Navigating Reunion and Respectful Language for Mothers

And I'm I'm sure you go much more into this in in your books, but what what was that connection like when you found her?

Well, you know, being 24 and it being 19871988, I know so much more now about how to go into reunion and I did all the wrong, wrong things.

I just jumped into it and didn't ask myself, are you even ready for this?

What if you open this door?

You don't know what you're going to find.

And at that point, it just didn't think of all the things that could happen or how I can feel about it.

And it the relationship didn't last very long because it ended up being that my first mom and I didn't know what to do with each other.

There was too many missing years, too many ways that she had gone this direction and I had gone that direction.

She wanted me to tell her who she is, which I was doing the same.

I went to find her for her to tell me who I am.

But through the reunion, I was able to see that I found some things I hadn't expected and I didn't find out some of the things I thought I really needed.

But there was some hidden gifts in there that helped me understand I was really always searching for who I am, and it wasn't about connecting with or being just like my biological family like I thought was going to be so important to me.

That really didn't end up being the most important thing, but I didn't know.

I've heard you've heard your your mother as your first mother, and I don't know if anybody else on the podcast has ever used that terminology before.

It's kind of intuitive, but do you care to explain a little bit more about why you use that terminology?

Absolutely.

And I think it's just out of concern and wanting to honor.

I know that sometimes people first mothers hear birth mother and that they feel slighted and that we don't understand all the things they had to go through, all the course of control that we now know about.

And so I'm trying, I try to be very careful with the term.

Language is important, and so sometimes I interchange birth mom, first mom, natural mom, biological mom, the mom I grew up with versus the mom who gave birth to me.

I try to cover it all to where I know that we're highly sensitive in all our groups and I just want to be respectful.

Yeah, No, thank you for taking the time to.

I mean, I think it's a, it's a beautiful expression, First, first mom because there is so much more that goes into it beyond just the birthright and birth mother implies birth was like basically the main piece of it, but there was a whole pregnancy and lots of other things that that she was feeling and experiencing.

So I think that's really kind.

Do you refer to your biological father in the same way as your first father or is he your biological father?

I just want to use the right terms.

I think I always use bio father for him and not big reason or I say paternal father sometimes yeah.

OK.

Understanding the 'Ghost Kingdom' for Adoptees and NPEs

So when you found your mother, your first mom, were you curious at that time about your biological father as well?

Or was it mostly about finding your first mother?

Well, I think in my growing up years I fantasized my ghost Kingdom was really all about my mom, My first mom.

But when I did meet her finally, that was the first question I asked because I had also stolen my unamended birth certificate which had her fake name on my birth certificate.

But there was a gentleman's name on there under the father and I wanted to ask her if that was a true name.

So she gave him up and gave his real name but yet she gave herself a fictitious name.

So I just need a confirmation, or at least what at that time who she thought the bio father was.

There's kind of a story there.

Yeah, as as often turns out to be OK, but I have to stop before we move on because you, you mentioned another term that I'm not sure all of the listeners would be familiar with.

Ghost Kingdom.

OK, can you talk more about what a ghost Kingdom?

It is a phrase that was coined by Betty Jean Lipton, who was a pioneer in the adoptee community in the 60s, seventies, you know, maybe even starting in the 50s.

But she wrote a book and it she talks about the ghost Kingdom is where you grow up adopted and you've been, you know, graft onto this new tree that is not not familiar to you.

It's it they're strangers.

It's a tree of strangers to an adoptee.

And so the Ghost Kingdom is us having a fantasy life, a rich fantasy life of who would I have been if the trajectory of my life hadn't been changed.

And so you kind of play both parts of the present of where you're living.

And then what would have happened and, you know, like, is that my mother in the grocery store?

Is that my father?

Looks like he has the same, you know, musical talents I have.

I wonder if that's my father.

So that's the go Ghost Kingdom.

And I think a lot of people in the DNA surprise community can probably relate to that.

I think for NP ES, especially if you didn't know or find out young growing up that you're one of one or more of your parents.

Wasn't your parent biologically as adults, I think we often end up in these what if situations and it's it's not exactly the same, but I think it's like a a similar experience of, oh, I could have had this very rich life or like what you said about being in the grocery store.

I remember walking through and like, if I saw somebody that I was like, oh, could they possibly, I don't know what if I'm related to that person?

Like that same feeling, 'cause you'd felt so detached from the truth of, of who you were.

So that's, that's interesting.

Meeting Her Biological Father and His Denial

Thank you for sharing.

You mentioned that you had curiosity about your biological father and she gave you the truth, maybe as she knew it.

But what?

What happens as you start to uncover more?

Well she couldn't really confirm or deny if the name was accurate or not.

So after that meeting of me, I had to meet her in California.

So I'm 24 and I'm going to a lot of different places at for that age.

So when I came back home, I decided to start researching the name that I had for my biological father and through a lot of insurance and outs and I think I finally found him through driver's record.

You can actually ask for someone's driver's record and I don't even remember how I found that out, but I had all of these matching names to the one that was on my birth certificate and found a gentleman that was still in Denver, Co.

And so I called him and he admitted to remembering my first mother, but he was saying, you know, please come talk to me, but I'm not your biological father.

So I make that trip again and I go spend like an hour and a half with him and he continues to say, I'm not your biological father.

I only wrote my name on your birth certificate to help out a friend, which was my first mom.

OK, really, what?

Who does that?

Why would you do that?

And he really didn't have a good answer.

But I was 24 and the man told me that that that's why.

And so I believed him.

But I looking back to this day, he hugged me in a way that is like a lost loved one and it and why did he even spend that time with me?

I kept wondering why is that?

And then the last thing was that struck me about that meeting with him is that he had the same eyebrows that I have.

Of course I've trimmed mine, but he had some wild black German eyebrows and I was like, that looks very familiar.

Did.

You feel like when you met him, you could still be my biological father.

I mean, you said you believed him after he told you that, but did you feel like maybe he was?

There was a little part that I held back.

I was very much a people plea pleaser at that age.

And so the man he was, you know, my elder, he was probably in his 50s, I guess, and I was 25.

So I believed him, Yeah.

But there was a little part of me that held back because of those little things that I noticed about, you know, that seemed to be similar and familiar.

And then there was the hug.

And but after that and decades went by, I believed him.

And I never found anything to the contrary to say otherwise.

So at that point I was just kind of put it on the shelf and thinking I this is just something I'm not going to ever know for sure.

Daughter's DNA Leads to Linda's Own Surprise

Wow, this was in the 80s when you met him.

Yes.

OK, So before commercial, well before commercial DNA testing.

And so I imagine you were kind of at a dead end, like if if your first mom is saying this is who it is and he's saying no, it's not, you're kind of left to just move forward.

How did that affect you?

Were you able to just accept it and make peace with never knowing, or was that a process?

Well, I think the best way to answer that is that I started having, I got married and started having babies.

I had two children.

They're adults now and I was all about raising them.

I was completely a mom and trying to wrap my head around that.

So it didn't leave me a lot of time to Daydream or be in the ghost Kingdom about who my first father was.

Or did he tell me the truth?

Or did he not tell me the truth?

So it wasn't until my daughter was in her master's program, so she was what, like 20-4 And had, I think she had told me she did her DNA and she called me one night and she said, you're not going to believe this mom, but I just got my DNA results.

And there are a lot of people that I'm matching up with that I don't know who they are.

And it was like one of those moments where you just feel like everything just kind of whooshes like, and I thought, why have I never done my DNA?

I, I just couldn't fathom why I hadn't thought of doing that.

I was the sleuth of the 80s.

And so I said, you send that to me right now.

You send me your, you know, and I was able to look at her list.

And at that point, I didn't know if they were her father's side of the family or if they were connected to me.

So I was making a lot of assumptions in the beginning that they could possibly be my closest relatives also.

Or would were they her father's?

We didn't really know until I spit in the tube myself, mailed it off, waited the, you know, the time that you have to wait.

And I got my results on a Mother's Day morning, on a Sunday, Mother's Day morning.

And it proved all of my assumptions because I had had the surname that was on my original birth certificate.

And a lot of those people were showing up, not necessarily on the DNA report, but I'd taken those people and researched on Facebook and used that as a tool to kind of formulate a family and trying to see who is connected to.

And it wasn't that my father was listed, but a lot he had, it was a, it was a Catholic family.

So there were a lot of members of the family and it end up to be true that he was.

He's passed now, but he was my biological father.

Wow, so you went from thinking you had identified him to dismissing that and then coming back around to it was him?

Bittersweet Truth and Meeting Her Half-Brother

It was him.

He knew when he was hugging me the whole time.

How do you feel making that connection and solving that?

I imagine it's like bittersweet because you're getting the truth, but then also he was there that whole time.

And I think I've gone through that whole grief wave of at first I was angry and but now to tell you the truth, I want to think that he had his reasons for why he did what he did.

He chose to not expose himself as far as with his Catholic family.

And I think when I met him when I was 24, his father was still alive.

And I think he felt like it wouldn't upset his entire life.

And I know I'm speculating now.

I really don't know and I'm OK with not knowing.

But here's the sweet justice is is that I've met his entire family now and they welcomed me.

And they said they never knew that he had placed a baby for adoption.

But I'm very much, you know, I know who my half brother is and my cousins.

And so that was really nice for me to to now know a part of my family that I was never intended to ever, ever know about.

But through tenacity and modern day science, I was able to piece together.

And not, not every adoptee or anyone in our constellation gets to have that.

So I feel really fortunate that I know as much about my story as I do.

You said you met a 1/2 brother.

Did your biological father go on to get married, have other children or or a child?

And was he married at the time that you had reached out to him initially?

Oh, no, he was not married when I first met him.

And I know that because he was in a small apartment and it looked like mixed matched furniture, kind of like I just got a divorce and I don't really.

But we had pictures all over the place of, you know, family members and cousins and apparently his children.

Yeah, he told me they were his children.

So I I was able to look at pictures.

And that was another thing when I saw a picture of one of his kids when they were younger, thought that looks a lot like my profile, but yeah, Yeah.

So he was not married at that time.

He did eventually get married and he had my half brother.

I think he's probably five years younger than me.

But when I met my half brother, he wasn't thrilled because he had never been told any of this and he didn't have a good relationship with his father.

So, you know, I was holding it loosely.

I wasn't saying, hey, I'm here to establish a relationship with you.

I'm here if you want one.

We'll decide that.

And it's turned out to where we know of each other and it'll be, hey, happy birthday or hey, Merry Christmas.

And I think that's probably the extent of what it's going to be and that's OK.

Yeah, yeah.

How did you get to a place of of peace with that?

I think sometimes people have a lot of hope about what their relationships or what reunion might look like for them.

And you seem to have reached a place of acceptance with everybody involved in, in your story, your first mom, your biological father and and your half brother.

Finding Peace and Choice Through Self-Reflection

How'd you get there?

Well, it took a lot of hard work, a lot of self reflection and I had a lot of work to do.

I had a huge catalyst in my life 10 years ago that forced me to my knees and I was able to come into because of that, I just knew I could not continue the way I was going.

So it made me pivot and go a new direction, and I had a mindset that it was going to be a healthy direction.

And through that, I developed this consciousness where I came, you know, the Truman Show that we often cite about how his whole life was a script and one day he asked the right question and all is revealed to him.

Well, that was a lot like what I was going through.

And it wasn't just about being an adoptee.

It was about what I felt about myself, what I felt about the world, politics, racism, sexism, who God is.

It was just like everything, and I've been going through that for the last 10 years, but it's helped me just kind of walk up that ladder of health to where I realized now that everything I did, all the searching was so important.

But I found things that I didn't really expect to find.

They were actually better things.

And it wasn't to get a new mommy, get a new daddy, have a new family, none of that.

But it, it brought me back to me and, and where I want to be as a person and, and how to just go from the rest of my life how I want to see that happen.

And I have choice now.

I never thought I had choice because I thought too, I had a script.

I had to stay on that script and not vary from that.

And then I realized that you don't have to read that script.

I could put it down and go my own way.

So that's what's.

That no that that makes sense.

And that was really well said.

Understanding the Plight of Birth Mothers in Adoption

Did you ever connect with your first mom again after you drifted apart?

Have you established any further relationship?

No, because I got married and had my own children.

And I think that was the crowning blow is when she wanted them to call her grandma, have a talk with her.

And I think it was really upsetting to her that I said I can't go there.

That is just, you know, there's been too much that's happened and too much life has happened and you're just not going to play that part with them.

Our expectations clashed.

So we never came back together and she has since passed.

But I'll, I will share that now that I know a lot of things that I didn't know at that point is I've gained so much compassion for what not only my first mom went through, but a lot of the 1960s, seventies, even in maybe even present day.

What unwed expectant mothers go through in the coercive control and all of the conditioning of who are you to keep this baby?

You need to give it to someone that can love it better and be a better mom than you could ever be.

And that's what my first mom went through.

And I think she was frozen in time.

So when I met her, that's why I didn't find my ghost Kingdom mom.

That was, you know, educated and doing great things and well read.

And all this because she was so frozen in time from what that experience was like to lose, to place her baby for adoption and never see, just walk away knowing you'd never see that child again.

Yeah, yeah, that's, I'm impressed by your compassion there for, you know what, what she went through, 'cause I'm, you know, you had your own experiences, but to open your heart and, you know, be empathetic to, to these women and what they've gone through.

Girls, really, a lot of them.

It just took a lot of digging and a lot of time to get to where I am now.

And we're all on a different part of our journey, right?

Adoptive Parents' Reaction and Writing as Therapy

Yeah, what did they think of your quest to find the truth?

They were told by a family member, hey, guess what Linda has done?

She's found her first mom.

And that was a huge thing when I was in my 30s at that point.

And they didn't speak to me for three years.

I was disinherited out of the will, out of the.

And the only reason that we came back together is when I got pregnant with my first baby.

That softened their hearts and we decided that with all the other crap we still there was love and it brought us back together.

I was very leery of getting too close to them or letting them get too close to my kids, but still, it was how the relationship came back together.

OK, wow.

And did you talk about it anymore after that or was it?

Ever.

Yeah, not even when I'm pregnant, right?

My mom didn't say anything.

No, nothing.

Wow, wow.

Like others in our community, you have taken your story and turned it into something so meaningful through writing.

Can you share about why you decided to write about your experience as Emma Stevens and maybe kind of a a highlight of of what your books are about?

I knew that I had to tell my story for myself.

I didn't ever think that I was going to write a book, but once I learned about a way to tell my story, weaving it through a modality, actually it's a psychological modality that I thought, I think a reader might really be interested in this.

Instead of just hearing about someone's childhood.

They did this, they did that.

But I was hoping that the gathering place where I create this safe place of a big old oak tree with a swing hanging there.

And I invite all the parts of me to the gathering place so I can have conversations with them as a healthy, conscious adult.

And kind of like, take their grief and sorrow away from them.

Tell them how much I'm grateful and thankful for what they did to help us cope and survive those early years.

But they don't have to do that job anymore.

So with that as a backdrop, I'm able to weave my actual story through all of that.

And it helped me so much to heal because I identified who my younger parts were, what they said, what they'd look like, well, how they felt and what they needed 'cause I think all of us are just running around with our younger parts trying to, you know, run the driver bus.

And if we don't get to know those parts and realize when it's happening, it really can control your whole life.

So it's interesting.

So you said a psychological modality, is it IFS that you?

I mixed IFS internal family systems with EMDR.

With EMDR, that's how I visualize the Gathering place, which is the cover of the book with the green grassy hill and the big old oak tree with the swing.

And the swing acts as a portal of where my younger parts can swing, and it loosens up their nervous system where they can get in touch with really their story and what they want to tell me.

What they've never been able to tell before, but they can tell me now because they feel safe.

And that's what EMDR did for me is I was able to just get in my imagination and create all that.

It was very, very helpful.

Yeah, that's amazing.

So did you work with a therapist on parts work and everything leading up to identifying this as the way that you wanted to tell your story?

I did, I did.

It was kind of like we work together.

Not that see my book.

I always try to say it's probably not textbook IFS or EMDR.

I'm not trying to say this is a EMDR book.

Right, right.

Well, you're telling a story through it.

Yeah, I'm telling my version of how it helped me and but my therapist was very helpful and we did a lot of EMDR sessions and I was able to get closer to those younger parts to identify who they were.

Exploring Her Books: From Exploitation to Choosing to Breathe

Interesting.

OK, so you have three books.

What about the other two?

The second book is a result of I touch on it in the first book.

It's a an event that happened to me, actually a pretty horrific event.

And once I finished the first book, I realized I have more to say because I wanted to warn my adoptee community or anybody else really.

Before you go on reunion, before you really do your life, you need to make sure that you get some help.

And if you choose a therapist, choose wisely.

Because if you hand your life to someone that's unethical and has a private agenda about your own life, then you're you could be in a very dangerous situation.

So through my true life story that happened to me, the exploitation by a therapist, that's what a fire is coming is all about.

And yes, I'm an adoptee, that's how she got me.

But I'm not saying that it it for someone else.

It could be any other issue.

You know, someone that's like that really controlling, they will find your vulnerability.

And mine happened to be being an adoptee that hadn't worked out my issues yet.

Wow, that's really interesting.

And I don't know that there's a lot of talk about that.

I'm currently writing with Doctor Joyce Pavo, who's another pioneer in the adoption community.

She's been a therapist for over 50 years.

And so we're collaborating to write a book because we feel that strongly about, I mean, even with the MPE 'cause I, I'm sure that you guys need some therapy and want to talk to someone.

And if you choose unwisely, it could be the same thing.

So that's why we're trying to get that message out there, because it happens more than you would think.

Then what about your third?

I didn't want to leave people hanging on on fires coming because a lot of people are like, oh, you've been through so much.

I'm like, I'm OK, I'm good now I'm really good.

So the third book is going back to the gathering place, but going deeper.

It's kind of like Emma 2 point O because obviously it took about five years to write all of them.

I learned a lot.

So I'm a lot healthier by the time I get to the third book and I go back to gathering place and dig deeper with finding new younger parts that were very integral to collectively me being, you know, the totality of who I am.

So I would just say that I go a little deeper in Choosing to Breathe is the third book and it means it's a mindset of I have choice in life now and I am choosing to breathe through the good times and especially through the bad times.

I'm always going to choose to breathe.

And so I tell that story through that whole theme.

The Healing Power of Pen to Paper for Processing Trauma

How have you connected with others through putting these books out into the world?

I've seen you at conferences.

I know you're an active part of the adoptee community.

How have you connected with others since since creating these books?

Yeah, it's been kind of a crazy ride because I'm rather an introvert that can come out to play for a certain amount of time, and after that, I have to go back to my hotel room alone and process.

But it's just helped me, forced me really, to get out of my comfort zone, meet people, share my story.

They share their stories with me.

Hey, we're saying the same thing.

Let's collaborate.

Just like the thing I told you about with Doctor Joyce and just all these exciting things that have happened as a result of writing the three books, getting to go to conferences, being part of the Tucson Festival of Books, having an editor, and just meeting some really lovely people.

And, and it just seems like it keeps building and expanding as I go.

I don't know where it's all leading, but it's really exciting and I love helping my community just the way they help me.

How would you say that kind of putting proverbial pen to paper has helped you process these experiences that you've had?

I've known that from a young age because in my household, when I was growing up, I'd get in trouble.

I'd be sent to my room and I'd get a pen and paper, and I'd write about how I was feeling.

And so I learned at a young age of how to use, you know, whatever angst I was feeling internally, think of a word, put it on paper, and then what's the next word next?

So I was learning at that point how to express myself.

It was my expression.

And I think it is, you know, I never thought I was going to write books, but it happened.

And it's just always been the expression that has helped me identify the some of the really hard to distinguish feelings I've had and emotions.

Putting things into words, it's a proven fact that even pen to paper helps your brain heal, even more so than writing on your laptop.

Yeah, isn't that interesting?

Yeah, it kind of anchors things I guess and it gets it outside of you to where you can be objective and look at it going, Oh yes, there's my expression and we're not, you know, it helps you not bottle it up.

Yeah, and I, I was actually just reading and I've had someone on the podcast too before, Christine Wolf, where we talked about this, the sort of therapeutic writing or the therapeutic nature of writing in that it's.

There have been studies that have shown that, yeah, putting a pen to paper is even more helpful for processing than talking about it.

Like even talking about it in therapy or talking about it, because when you talk about it, it's more like you're reliving it in a way.

Like your brain doesn't get rid of it in the same way as when you put it down on paper.

That's not the clinical term, obviously, but I just think that that's so interesting that the modality actually matters.

Essential Advice for DNA Surprises and Parents

Yes, I think that's true.

Where can people find your books if they're interested in reading them?

All three books are on Amazon and I also recorded with my own voice all three books on Audible.

So if you're one of those that prefers to listen, like me, I get to read through so many more books than if I were to to read them.

Great.

And we'll be sure to put those in the show notes too for folks who are who are interested.

All right.

Well, I always end every episode with two questions for every guest.

And so my first question for you is what advice do you have for a parent who is keeping adna surprise from their child?

For example, your biological father who probably knew, right, that he, what we think knew that he was your father and didn't share that.

What advice would you have for a parent who's keeping Adna Surprise?

I would ask them to get reflective and ask themselves what they're fearful about, because fear I feel is the thing that gets in the way.

And they make a lot of assumptions of someone will act this way or someone will act that way.

But I think it's worth the risk because our secrets only make us sick, and it doesn't just make you sick, it makes the whole family sick.

And that's not true love.

If you really love someone, I don't care what your reasoning is, have the uncomfortable conversation in the very beginning to be able to save that relationship instead of having to have the conversation that could blow it all apart 30 years from now.

For whatever, do it, get rid of it.

You know that's a healthy relationship.

Yeah, well said.

And what advice do you have for someone who has just uncovered ADNA Surprise and is embarking on this experience?

Well, I think we all like to hear from someone else that is either gone through the experience or you want to go to a therapist that has that in their repertoire of knowing how to help someone with the processes of going through that.

But please, again, make sure that you make sure that the therapist is of good standing with their board of ethics and that they give you a 50 free 15 minute consultation so you can tell them your expectations and know that you are in charge, not the therapist.

You hired them and they work for you.

But I do recommend good quality therapy because if you're left with your own thoughts, when you find out something so huge that could bring you to your knees, you might need a little help.

And a little if you don't have a close friend or a mentor or family, another family member to talk with, therapy is always a good option to make sure that you kind of keep your thinking straight.

More really good advice.

Linda, thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast.

I really appreciate you taking the time to take us through your long journey to figuring out your truth and then walking us through what you did to work through it and come to such a wonderful place of acceptance and peace.

And now you're using that to help other people.

So thank you so much.

I wish you the absolute best.

And for listeners, we will include the links to the books and the show notes.

Thank you so much, it was a pleasure to be here.

Thanks again to Linda for sharing her story.

If you have Adna Surprise that you'd like to share, please submit your story at dnasurprises.com and for early add free access to episodes, join me over on patreon@patreon.com/DNA Surprises.

Until next time, DNA Surprises is hosted, produced and edited by me, Alexis Oursalt.

It is mixed and mastered by Josh Auersault of Siren Recording Tudios.