Michelle’s DNA Surprise

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

Speaker 1

Hi everyone.

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Thanks for being here.

Speaker 2

What's really weird about Bill is that.

Speaker 3

From.

Starting when I was about 8 years old.

Speaker 4

I asked I.

Would ask my mom.

Hey.

Remember that guy Bill used to date whatever happened to him?

And she would, you know, told me whatever it was, why they broke up.

And then even as an adult, I would say, Mom, do you ever wonder what happened to Bill?

And I don't.

Know why?

I just.

Just was drawn to him, to the point that even as an adult, for random reasons, I just googled his name.

Just wanted to know where he was.

Right.

It's I I don't know what it.

Speaker 5

Is I just was.

For whatever reason, I was attached to him.

Hi, I'm Michelle.

I'm 57 years old and I live in Texas.

My DNA starting story starts way back in about 1961.

My mom got married and the the marriage was very brief.

She didn't have a daughter though her first husband.

Then she met my birth certificate.

Dad.

And they were married in 1964 and I was born in 1965.

And that that marriage was also fairly brief.

My my dad, my birth certificate.

Dad wasn't a huge fan of my half sister and that caused a lot of argument between them.

So the story my mom told me is that when she was 8 months pregnant with me, they got in a big argument.

There was some physical abuse and they separated.

I'm not honestly sure.

I I never really clarified.

And I just thought about this the other day.

I never actually clarified whether they were together ever after I was born.

I do know I have pictures of him, you know, holding me when I was a newborn, But he's always been in my life.

There was another very brief marriage that was annulled, and during this time, when I was about two or three years old, I have memories of my mom dating a man named Bill who's a great.

Guy I I don't.

I don't know how.

Of how the memories are like I said, I was two or three years old, they might be a whole bunch of memories spread out or just very specific ones.

But I remember Bill very well.

And then when I was four she met my stepdad and they married when I was 6.

And I have another half sister from that marriage.

So they stayed married for 15 years and during this time?

My birth certificate dad was in my life.

He lived.

Sometimes he lived in state, sometimes out of state.

It would be the kind of thing where he would call my mom up and say, hey, you know, can I come see Michelle and and he would pick me up and I would spend a weekend with him or whatever my first memory of him is Also, when I was two or three years old and my grandparents came and picked me up, his parents and we went out, flew on an airplane, we flew to see him.

He lived out of state at the time.

Also during this time he was married several times.

He ultimately married.

And I have 1/2 brother from that relationship.

They stayed married forever until he passed.

My stepdad actually legally adopted me.

And the reason for that?

First of all, I adored him.

I'd known him since I was four years old.

I also wanted to have the same name as my mom and my sister and him and my birth certificate.

Dad fought it for a long time.

I would call him up, say hey, you know, would you let him adopt me?

And no, absolutely not.

I'm not going to do this.

And it was coming up on 8th grade graduation.

And I was like, Dad, I'm going into high school.

I just, you know, back in the 70s you could go by whatever name you wanted to basically.

So I had been.

Going by my stepdad's last name since they got married.

So I had always had that name.

It just was never legal.

So I just really wanted to make it legal.

So finally I convinced my first stupid dad to let my stepdad adopt me again, still maintaining this relationship.

It was not great.

My dad was.

Very verbally abusive.

Not to me, but to everybody around him.

He was.

He could just be very mean.

I would have to go spend like 2 weeks at a time with him out of state.

I would.

Call my mom in tears and just say please come get me and she couldn't.

So I've always had a very strained relationship with him.

My mom did ultimately end up marrying again and end up staying married for 30 years until she passed anyway.

At one point when my mom was about 70 years old, it came out that my mom's birth father was not her birth certificate father was not her biological father.

And the story is that her birth certificate dad was in the Navy.

He was gone for an extended amount of time and when he came back, my grandma was six months pregnant with my mom.

My mom has an older brother and younger sister.

They adamantly deny it.

They say it's not true, but my mom says to my grandmother told her this is the truth.

So like 70, Yeah, yeah, she was very emotional about it.

She ended up having she had heart problems.

It ended up causing this huge panic attack, but we didn't really discuss it in a ton of detail.

I have a picture of her alleged biological dad.

I have his name, but it definitely affected her.

I mean, you know, it always, there always was the strain between her and her birth certificate dad.

And so she kind of.

You know, tied that all together.

So my mom passed rather suddenly and after she passed I decided I wanted to see if this was in fact all true because like I said, the younger sister, the older brother, they just adamantly deny it.

I decided to do a 23andMe test just to see I I had heard that the the bio dad had died very young but I still was like maybe there's some other relatives.

So I did this 23andMe test in gosh probably like 2000 and.

It was after my mom was already gone.

So 2019, maybe not.

I don't remember exactly.

And right away I got a match on my older half sister.

There was no surprises there.

Now my older half sister, the reason she did the test and and she and I have been somewhat estranged.

She actually spent a lot of time living with her biological dad.

So our relationship was very strange.

My older half sister said that like every time we would talk or text, she would always say.

My dad doesn't think he's my dad.

And I would be like, please stop.

You know, our mom would never cheat.

Of course he's your dad.

Please stop saying that.

So she ultimately did a 23 me test, had her aunt on her dad's side test, and then of course confirmed that he is her dad.

And so I get this match on her.

And I had seen on my birth certificates dad, he had many years ago given me a big long family tree.

So I knew all the names that were associated with his family.

And I didn't recognize any of the the names on my list at all.

And I asked my sister to, you know, screenshot me her top ten.

And none of ours were the same.

So I'm like, OK, well, they have to be from my dad's side.

And about a year ago, I was having lunch with my aunt who's my birth certificate.

Dad's sister were extremely close.

I adore her and I showed her the list.

I said, do you recognize any of these names?

And she's like, no, I don't recognize any of these names.

And I'm like.

Okay.

Well, I don't know.

Maybe just nobody on my I I don't know.

You know what I mean?

I couldn't put it together.

So at the same time during all this, I'm a huge crime junkie, true crime junkie.

So I've been listening to a podcast and it talked about solving cold cases and how they used Jed Match to solve cold cases.

So I might have to upload my DNA to Jed Match and maybe, you know, 10 cousins down the line.

I've got a.

You know, a murderer for a relative.

So I uploaded it.

I never looked at it again because in my mind, I didn't realize that it was actually a DNA matching site.

I I truly just thought it was like a database for law enforcement.

So I never looked at it.

And that was in August of 2020 and.

So I go about.

My life, I keep getting these random hits on people that I don't recognize.

And in November of 2022.

Out of the blue I get an e-mail from Jed match saying hey we have a match.

So I go oh cool, yeah, they must have solved the murder.

I'm going to, I'm going to lock in and log in and find out who this is.

So I logged on and also let me back up a little bit.

One of the reasons I did the 23 and me is I truly thought my birth certificate.

Dad would have had other kids out there because he dated a lot looking really for.

Yeah, it was.

Also, I thought for sure he's probably got other kids out there other than the half brother that I knew about.

So anyway, so I log into this and it takes me a few minutes to kind of maneuver and figure out how to get to the DNA results.

And I I look at it and the first thing I see is in one of the right hand columns and the match was huge.

And I'm like, well, that's really weird because that's way more than I match on my half sister.

And this probably all went very quickly, but in my mind it was very deliberate slow motion.

So I first see this huge number and I'm OK.

That's very odd.

Then I slide over to the left and I see the e-mail attached to this match, and the first thing I saw was the last name of the e-mail, and I immediately recognized it as the person that my mom dated when I was two or three years old, Bill.

Then I scanned over, but it was a woman's name.

Then I scan over one more box and it has the initials of the person that I match on, and of course it's his initials.

So I you know for a minute you you start to you you think all sorts of crazy things so.

I'm kind of listening.

To the YouTube video that explains it and I'm reading the numbers and reading and it says if you have this kind of a match it's either a twin or your parent.

And I've literally for a second went.

Do I have a twin and I'm like you?

Know of course I.

Didn't have a twin.

And so I'm Okay.

Bill is my dad.

So.

I I just immediately started.

Bawling because I just.

I don't know.

I don't know what it was.

There's a lot of things.

It was like I felt like every part of my life.

Is a lie.

And I was so.

Sick of for 57 years.

Try and explain to people.

My.

Mom's marriages and my half siblings on both sides of my family and I was like, this is just one more secret that I have to explain.

So I really didn't hesitate because in my 2 year old memories I'm like, well of course Bill will Remember Me.

So I'm just going to e-mail him.

And so I clicked on the e-mail and I just, I said, you know.

His name DNA, not spam.

Please read.

And I just explained that who my mom was and I knew what they had worked together years ago.

That's how they met.

And I just said, you know, I remember my mom meeting, you know, dating this person.

I I adored him.

I thought he was wonderful.

Do you know him?

I'm just, I'm not trying to ruin anybody's life or cause any trouble.

I just, I'm trying to wrap my mind around this.

So it actually was.

Just a few hours later that I got an e-mail back from him and he said I'm at Bill and he said yeah I did.

I dated your mom for a long time, including being with her during both her first and 2nd marriages.

There was no denial there was anything he did say, he said.

I suppose we both knew there was a chance, but we never discussed.

It so.

You have to remember at this point.

My my mom was like 23.

He was like 22.

They were very young and he was a young bachelor living his best life.

I don't fault him for any of this.

I mean, I truly.

I think you, I think.

You know this is 1960.

Five you just.

Put those thoughts to back in your mind.

There's you never in your mind think that 50 some odd years from now, there is going to be DNA that's going to prove who the parent is.

So I think my mom did the same thing.

You just put it away.

Yeah, but it was no, it was probably 30 minutes after.

After I had time to calm down think about what I wanted to say.

It was.

I mean, couldn't even been an hour.

I mean, looking back now, that was probably crazy.

I I probably.

I don't know what's right.

But for me it just felt right because he knew me.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Yeah, I I right away emailed him a picture of my family.

My daughter had gotten married like a year and a half before that, so I had a great picture of all the kids and grandkids.

So I emailed him that and he would e-mail me back and tell me a little bit about his family.

He's he's been married.

He's been married forever and he has another daughter.

What's really interesting about all this is he was an only child, OK?

And he and his wife only had one child.

And she never had any children, so theoretically the line was done.

The only reason this even came out was his wife, who is amazing is huge into genealogy.

She wanted to build a family tree.

They both.

Come from very small families, so even his dad at the time was still alive.

And his dad was.

She said that his wife said that she kind of he kind of laughed her and was like, I don't know why you're doing this.

It's just us.

It's just us four people, you know?

And she can, you know, she convinced him to do it also.

And come to find out there was, you know, kids and grandkids and great grandkids and.

So it's that part of it's.

Been really interesting.

You know, I have such good memories of him, so.

I was.

Grateful that it was somebody I knew.

I didn't really have any expectations though.

I thought in my mind, you know, he's almost 80 years old.

He lives across country from me.

I don't know that I'll ever see him, but the more we started talking and eventually I started texting with his wife and texting with his daughter.

And everybody's just been just so welcoming, you know, I was really worried about his daughter.

And she said, you know, for her, so much of her identity has been being an only child.

So that was a whole new wave of her for thinking.

But then she said, but on the other hand, I've got a, I've got a sister now, you know, So she's amazing.

They're all amazing.

I think what's been the hardest about this is, like I said, the trauma of seeing of the time that I had to spend.

With my birth certificate, Dad, the only thing that I will say that came up is the only time I ever at all disputed.

Or.

Had a thought that perhaps my birth certificate dad is not my dad was my birth certificate Dad had terminal cancer.

So 14 years ago I was in the hospital with him.

He was in his final days and they said, I think you're going to need a blood transfusion.

So I said, oh, I'll do, I'll give, you know, I give blood all the time.

What's your blood type?

So he told me his blood type and I I.

I thought.

Well, that's weird because I knew my blood type and my mom had told me several times what her blood type was.

And I wasn't a huge fan of science in high school.

But I knew enough to know that these two blood types could not possibly make this blood type.

So I thought, well, that's really weird.

But then I thought, OK.

Maybe my mom's just.

Confused about what her blood type is, you know, so I kind of just pushed it aside.

Then when all this stuff.

Started coming up about not no no match names on my 23 Mia.

I did start to wonder, so I wasn't.

Completely shocked when I saw.

It but there's still, you know, this just disbelief.

So I was pleased that it was him and you know.

I don't know for sure.

What's going to happen next?

He's a man of very few words, so it's been it's hard to even texting him.

You get very short responses, and his daughter and his wife always say.

You know, I I see his face when you send him pictures of the grandkids.

He loves it.

Keep doing it.

So his birthday was a couple weeks ago and I was really torn at this point.

I hadn't had a conversation with him and I I finally said I'm going to call him and the conversation didn't go well.

It was very brief and I hung up.

I was just really upset.

And I didn't talk about it.

And then a couple days later, I was talking to his daughter, texting her.

I said, did you know, I texted you to your dad?

She said, no.

Yeah, my mom told me, how did that go?

I told her about it.

She's like, oh, that's actually normal for him.

You know, he doesn't talk a lot.

So it turned out he, he ended up emailing me a couple days later saying he's having some problems with his vocal cords.

So it's making it difficult to talk.

So that was what was going on with that.

But to get back to this thing with my mom is that, you know, knowing that she had been through it before and knowing that I brought him up, I'm just angry at her for never saying, hey, Michelle, there's a smidge of a it could just be there's just a smidge, you know?

And it didn't have to be when I was 8 and asked her it, but it could have been when I was 40 and asked her about him.

I'm really angry at her.

My mom died in 2015 and I've had her on this huge pedestal and even through all of the all the years of making up all these excuses and justifying all her relationships.

I still just had her on this pedestal.

This made me mad.

This.

I'm so angry that I can't talk to her about it.

And I will tell you right now if I were to call her today and say.

Mom, I just found out Bill's my dad.

I I guarantee you she would sob hysterically and apologize And and I I get that in the 60s is what you had to do.

I understand that.

But at some point, I I think she just buried it so deep in her mind that she just didn't talk about it.

Actually told my stepdad about it a few days ago because I had.

I've I've not told that many people because all of my really close friends know my mom.

And here I am still trying to protect my mom's reputation.

So obviously the first person I told was my husband, and then I told my kids individually and I.

I told.

I actually told some new friends I heard because I haven't lived here that long.

So I told some new friends because they don't know my mom.

So I was like, I have to tell somebody I can't keep this secret.

Then a couple weeks ago, I finally told my younger sister and she was just beyond speechless.

I mean, so sweet.

Just.

Not so much surprised because we know our mom, but just heartbroken for me.

I haven't told my older sister, and I think I just don't want to hear the I told you so.

Because for so long I've been like our mom.

Wouldn't she stop saying that?

And even though her, you know, he's not her dad, I just.

I don't really want to have that conversation.

But I did tell my I called my stepdad the other day, in fact, and I told him I think he was amazing.

And of course, it doesn't affect him at all, because he's always known I wasn't his birth child.

But I said, Dad, did she ever say anything?

Did she anything?

And she said, he said.

I had no idea.

But I mean, I guess you don't tell your new spouse, Hey, by the way, I cheated on my other husbands.

I mean, you know,

oh, absolutely.

I mean, everybody has my kids kind of are.

I told them and they're just like mom, I'm so sorry.

But then they just, they don't, you know, they don't understand.

They of course have grown up in in my 2 youngest kids, have grown up in their mom and dad, have been married forever and you know, they can hardly relate.

And all their grandparents, honestly, because they knew my mom's last husband as their grandpa, they knew my birth certificate dad, but only when he would come visit, you know what I mean?

So it's very short.

My oldest son had a better relationship or more of a relationship with my birth certificate dad because he actually flew back to see my dad because I have a my half brother and him are actually closer in age than than me and my half brother.

But so everybody's been super supportive.

They all just say I I don't.

Most of them are just like, I don't even know what to tell you.

I don't even know how to tell you to handle it.

You know, like I said, his wife and his daughter have probably been the easiest to talk to because they're directly affected by it and they've just been like, whatever you feel is fine, you know, we we get it.

The one thing is, is that I had uploaded my DNA to that match in August of 2020, but his Bill's wife actually logs onto it almost every month.

So she actually saw it and just kept waiting for me.

They immediately discussed it and they agreed that they should wait for me to reach out to them, which I 100% think it's the right thing to do.

I I really do.

So she said, you know, she even kept checking like her junk e-mail box to make sure that, you know, I had, I hadn't contacted them and she just thought maybe that I had just decided I wasn't interested.

You know, I didn't need that in my life.

Of course, like I said, I wasn't searching for a dad, so I never even looked at that website again.

So, you know, they've been amazing.

They're.

Well, I think for one, she's just an amazing human being.

But she did say I talked to her today, actually.

I had a phone conversation, which was the first time ever.

And because I had emailed you this morning and said, hey, I just want to give you a heads up, I'm going to do this interview.

She's actually the one that told me about your podcast when this whole thing first started, right.

So I've been listening to you for months and I, you know, I emailed you.

And so I was like, I need to give her a heads up that I'm doing this.

So she ended up calling me and she, we talked a lot about, I said, you know, what was your emotion when you first saw this?

You know, you log on and all of a sudden, you know, and she kind of said the same thing, that she looked at the number and at that point she didn't know a lot about the numbers, but she knew that it was exceptionally high.

And so she started thinking.

What is this like a a parent on Bill's side?

I mean, you know what I mean?

She was trying to wrap her mind around it and then she said the more that she, you know, started playing with it and she realized that I was a child of his.

And the first thing she said was she needed to know when I was born.

And thankfully I was born 7 years before she, you know, had a relationship with him, or at least anyway seven years before.

Before I know they had their daughter.

I don't know exactly when they got married, but so that was a relief to her.

I know to know that, you know, there was no infidelity on his part on in that relationship.

She actually told me today that she finds it to be a blessing.

You know that because again, their family is very small.

She's also one of only one.

She has one sister.

That sister only has one child there.

So I think for them, they're like now we have all these people.

I have 6 grandkids and three kids and so I've had like, you know.

11 people to their family.

So yeah,

well, First off, his wife told me that absolutely, had he known, it would have been handled differently.

So that was nice to hear.

I don't still I He's a very quiet man, you know, his wife says.

He's a quiet man, you know, His daughter says.

He's a quiet.

Man, I think he was a great dad.

I think he was a very traditional man of the house, you know worked hard for the same company forever and provided for his family and but his his wife and his daughter are brilliant after his his daughter's you know got her master's degree and his wife I believe has her doctorate.

I think he's a I think he's a really good man.

I just think he's a lot of you know keeps to himself.

We actually just recently decided that it's time to meet.

So that's happening next month and I'm really excited about that.

Another thing that's really interesting about this that his wife told me today is when we were talking about her reaction to discovering that she said that before he'd submitted the DNA, she actually said to him, is there a chance there could be other kids out there?

He he really just kind of laughed it off and was like, no, you know?

And the other thing that's interesting is I actually go by my middle name.

So he's always known me by my middle name.

Legally.

I have a different first name.

So when I had it on there.

When she saw, when she told him the name, he was like, you know, I don't, I don't know that person.

And then when he realized the middle name, then he put two and two together and like, oh, that's my mom's daughter and you know, so.

Yeah,

you know, we're not young kids.

I'm not a young kid that's going to expect to be visiting him on a regular basis.

I hope that we can just keep communication open.

I hope that, you know, he enjoys hearing updates about me and my kids and my grandkids, and I hope that we can still stay in each other's life as well as his wife and daughter don't have a great relationship with my older sister.

My younger sister and I were sort of hit and miss.

So right now it's been really good with his daughter and it's nice to have somebody to bounce all this off of.

I don't have any expectations to be honest with you.

I'm just sort of taking it every day at a time and see where it goes and how big it goes.

I think we'll always be in touch with each other and hopefully once he gets this voice thing situated, we'll be able to talk on a regular basis.

As few words as he wants to say.

I'll do all the talking, obviously, and he'll just say

I think because for so much of my life it was just me and my mom, Like in between all the marriages, it was just me and my mom and I just.

The way it was always told to me was my mom just was with these men that were just not great men.

And that's maybe still that's in my mind, is that my poor mom was subjected to all this.

I know now I I think it's giving me a lot more perspective on that.

My mom probably brought a lot of this on.

And thinking back at the times that, like for instance, when I was young, my mom, I spent a lot of weekends with my mom's sister, my aunt.

And I thought it was great.

But now looking back and I'm like, my mom was sort of handing me off so that she could have these relationships or deal with these relationships.

She was much better when she finally found the right person and they stayed together forever.

They ended up being married for like 30 years until they both passed.

And I just adore my mom and I just take all her imperfections.

But I do know this isn't my cross to bear, and I'm.

I'm tired of being embarrassed about it.

And it's a really slippery slope because there's part of me that wants to tell people there's other part of me that, you know, just can't.

I.

Haven't told.

I haven't told my halfbrother yet, because I don't.

But that's a conversation I have have in person.

I haven't told my aunt, my dad's sister, and I don't know that I will because she's also 80.

Quincy, her and mom were childhood friends.

So I don't.

I know she doesn't know, but I just kind of feel like why at this point, you know, this is not going to change my relationship with my aunt or my brother.

I don't think it will.

I know for sure it won't my aunt.

But it's just, you know, it's hard to tell people and it's hard to he protected my mom, but I still do.

I believe that my birth certificate dad 1000% believed I was his 1000% because he is the kind of person that if I wasn't his, if he had any doubt, he would have just been like, I'm done.

I don't, I'm not going to do this.

And because of how how hard he thought when I wanted my stepdad to adopt me, I mean he was just like, no, I know he believed I was so.

And he's of course gone.

So at least he doesn't have to learn.

He doesn't have to know.

So

I mean, there's part of me that would sort of love to know the extent of the relationship.

I think it was.

I think it was a while, honestly.

Bill's wife actually told me today that Bill's mom actually used to not used to, but more than once called her by my mom's name.

So I mean.

I have pictures of with when I was with Bill when I was two or three years old and I I remember his mom.

So I would love to sort of know what happened there.

You know why it ended, you know, wasn't because my mom told me that.

It was because she had kids and he didn't want to be with somebody that had kids.

I I think probably that's not true.

I I really don't know.

I I might just have some questions about the relationship, but I'm not going to bring those up for a while.

I don't when I see him next month, I don't intend to get into any of that.

I don't intend to stir up a bunch dirty laundry.

I just want to.

I just want to be with him.

I just want to spend some quality time with him and his family and just reconnect and and see and I hope we're compatible.

I hope he likes me, you know?

I mean, do you know what I mean?

Like you don't know, you know.

Yeah, I feel like I'm pretty normal and I'm pretty easy to get along with

a lot of reading, a lot of podcasts.

You know, I got on all that.

Again, Bill's wife is the one that said, hey, there's a Facebook group for this.

Hey, there's a podcast for this.

And I just started, you know, listening to your podcast back-to-back to back and just telling people at my own pace, you know what I mean?

Just just talking about it when it feels right.

I mean, even I'll be honest, it's hard to talk to my husband about it even because he he really can't relate.

I mean he, his parents were married for, well, I mean if his mom was still alive, it would be like over 60 years now.

And you know, he's got this huge family with literally there's like 45 first cousins and I don't even know have any aunts and uncles.

And there's only like 3 divorces in the entire family.

And then you have my mom and my birth certificate dad who had three times that many just between them, you know.

So I just try to.

I'm just talking to people that can relate has helped.

I think, you know, your retreat's going to be huge for me.

I'm.

I'm really excited to to connect in person with some people that have been through it.

Probably going to go to counseling at some point, but you know, we'll see, we'll see how the meeting goes and we'll see how the retreat goes.

And, you know, right.

So coincidentally, my son is at N P/E.

Not really, but I I had my son when I was 19 years old and I was not married to his father, and his father had very limited involvement with him from the time he was born.

And I met my husband when my son was two and we married a month before my son turned 4.

And ultimately when my son was 8, my husband legally adopted him And again, his bio dad was just not in the picture.

So my husband really didn't want to tell my son.

He was just like I, you know, I just love him so much.

He's mine.

I don't see any reason we need to share the secret.

And I.

I don't know why, but I knew we did.

So when he was about 10, I think he and I were actually away for the weekend.

He had a soccer tournament and we went out to dinner and I said you.

Know we talked about it, I said.

You know, Dad's not your dad, right?

And the reason I knew he sort of knew was because he was 8 years old when we had to sit in front of a judge and say, do you want him to be your dad?

So do you know what I mean?

I think it's always been there for him, but I just needed to make sure that he knew.

And you know, so we talked about it a lot.

He didn't really ask any questions about his dad.

I don't know if it's different for boys.

I mean, he really didn't have any desire to connect with him.

He ultimately did and found out he had a younger house sister and then his his dad finally married and had another son.

But I just felt like he needed to know because.

And I'm so thankful because he's now, you know, he'll be 38 this year and I can't imagine if I said hey, by the way, you know.

So I'm really grateful that I went with my gut and it's always sort of been an open conversation, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now he, I know he had some conversation with his his dad as he became, as he was older, as actually as he was an adult.

Turned out that he actually went to high school with his cousin.

And the reason this came out was I was actually at a homecoming game and his dad was at the game.

I'm like, what are you doing here?

And he's like, oh, that's my nephew out there on the field.

And I was like, okay, whoa, to talk to him, my son, a little more about this at this point, You know, he's in high school.

So I had to tell him, hey, heads up, you have a cousin that goes there.

But anyway, years later, my son was at work and his dad just randomly showed up at his at where he worked.

And he said he came up to him and he's like, hey, are you Zach and Zach?

And he's like, I'm your dad.

He's like, Nope, I know who my dad is.

Tom's my dad And he said his dad asked if he could have his phone number and he's like, I'll give you my e-mail, but he never, he doesn't have any interest in that relationship.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you know, honestly?

He took.

The hardest of all three of my kids.

Like I said, the the middle son just kind of went oh, you know Grandma I knew she had a pass.

My my daughter just was like, I'm so sorry, mom.

You know I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Because I didn't tell them till I just told them probably like a month ago because it was during the holidays and I was like, I don't like hey we're at Thanksgiving dinner by the way you know I so I didn't tell them.

So I my my older son was the last one I told and he actually started crying and he just, I don't.

I don't.

Know where it was all coming from?

He made a comment about Now I know how his dad's parents felt, and I was and I.

Didn't know what that meant.

I don't know because I never denied his bio dad's parents access to him, but they basically said, this is your problem son.

We're not going to get in the middle of it.

So they didn't reach out to me and say, hey, can we see our grandson?

But that was what, my son?

Said is.

Now you know how you know parents felt and I'm like, I don't get that.

But but he cried.

And then again he also was the only one that really had somewhat of a relationship with my birth certificate Dad.

So I, you know, I had to tell him, you know, don't call your uncle and tell him because I haven't told him yet So I don't for sure.

I don't know where he lives out of state.

My oldest son, Dad the other two live here in state.

So it's harder to get in touch with him and have a conversation and.

He's all he does.

He keeps his emotions in also.

So I I I don't.

Know for sure where he is with it right now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's key.

It's absolutely key.

I'm good.

Talking to Bill's wife today was huge because when we started talking about seeing each other she got really like she and I would text about every other day and when Bill brought this up I didn't hear from her and I even texted.

After I made the reservation yesterday, I texted her and said I just want to check in, are you good?

Are you okay with this visit?

And I didn't hear from her, so I sent her this long e-mail today and I said.

If it's not the right time, I can wait.

It's okay, you know, and and she called me and she said no, I'm I was letting Bill take the lead on this but I'm excited to see you.

When he first emailed me and said I think it's time that we meet, I again started crying.

I'm not it's been a very emotional journey obviously.

I again started crying because now I'm like now I'm cheating on what it feels like is I'm cheating on the people that I haven't told.

Like I'm cheating on my brother and.

Cheating on my aunt.

And that's the part.

That's eating me up because I don't know.

I don't know how to handle that part.

I don't know how to.

Tell those people at work if I should tell them.

I know I need to tell my brother because even if he doesn't, he's not going to do a DNA test because I had asked him years ago.

Hey, you should do one.

I know he's not going to do one, but, you know, 10 years from now his daughter might, I mean.

It's.

So I know it's.

Going to come out, and I really don't want to keep that secret anyway.

But it's heavy, you know?

It's every day and trying to deal with the anger of my mom.

I think you have to acknowledge it.

I mean as painful as it is.

You have to.

Own it.

It is my life changing to the child.

I'm a grown woman and it's thrown my world upside down initially.

I'm coming to terms with it now, but even if there's a slight chance and.

You, you, you need to say something.

And whether it's just like, hey, maybe we should all do these DNA kits.

I don't know what the answer is, but I know keeping it a secret is not the right answer.

It's only going to hurt down the life and it's going to it's going to affect your relationship.

If you keep those lines open and your relationship is good, it'll be okay.

Like I said, if my mom was here right now, I would forgive her.

I know my mom would accept it.

She would beg for forgiveness.

I I would acknowledge that.

This is what she had to do in the 60s.

But you you just can't keep it a secret.

You just can't definitely take a back a breath.

Understand that it is not your fault.

It's a part of you.

It is not your fault.

Surround yourself with people that you love and be patient.

I wasn't patient.

I jumped right in.

But I also knew that this person would.

Hopefully recognize my name, you know and.

But I know it's not like that for everybody.

I think it's baby steps.

You know, listen to the podcast, read everything you can expect to get hurt because you're going to, you know, even if the relationship is good with the new person, you didn't grow up.

You didn't grow up with this person.

You you're.

Just going to be learning about each other.

Things are going to hurt, but I think just most importantly, just acknowledge it is not your fault.

It is.

It's going to ultimately be okay, you know, and just be patient.

Take each step baby steps daily and it'll be okay.

Right, right.

I hope.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

Can't wait?