John’s DNA Surprise

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

Intro

Along the way, I, I, my wife and I would always say how different I was and I would always say, I don't feel like I even belong there.

And I know I've listened to quite a few of the podcast and people say that.

And it was really reassuring in many ways to hear other people say that because I, I carried a lot of guilt for that through the years of, oh, I just don't feel like I belong here.

What, what's wrong with me?

You know, and I, I felt really guilty about that.

And I think had I known I was adopted, that would have been such a help many years ago to know, hey, it's OK, you're different.

There's a reason why you might feel or you think you're different than us and behave differently and whatnot, because there's a reason for it.

But I didn't know that.

And then I, I carried this guilt for years and years and years.

So it's not like I'm playing the results now saying, see, I, I, I feel like I didn't belong.

I mean, I said that for years and years.

Speaker 2

Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the world of unexpected DNA discoveries.

I'm your host, Alexis ourselves.

In July 2021, my life took a surprising turn when I found out that I'm an NPE, a person who has experienced a non paternal event.

In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he was.

Join me as we explore the stories of NP, ES, adoptees and donor conceived people and their families.

Get ready to unravel the astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test.

This is DNA surprises.

How often do we hear on this show that people never felt like they fit in with their families growing up?

This week's guest, John, reveals that he felt the same way and even held on to some guilt around his feelings.

Fast forward to a little over two years ago when his daughter took ADNA test and unearthed a surprise for the entire family.

John wasn't biologically related to any of the family he grew up with because he was adopted as a newborn.

John shares how this discovery has affected him and the steps he took to uncover more information about his origin story.

While he hasn't connected with his biological parents and doesn't particularly feel the need to, he also discusses why he's open to changing his position, especially for his children.

Thank you for sharing your story, John.

John’s Story

John, I'm 60 years old and I'm from New Jersey.

It started innocently enough with my daughter taking ADNA test.

She did one of the over the counter DNA test.

And the reason she did it was more of a kind of a joke, if you will.

So my dad used to tease my kid, my children.

I have three children and my dad used to tease them saying yeah, I'm from here, I'm from there.

Because he didn't know where he was from.

He didn't know his ethnicity, so every time he would talk to them, it would change because he was just being silly.

So as when my youngest got older, she's like, well, I'm going to find out what the heck we really are.

So she went and and took a test and it came back.

Basically, she's 100% Irish, which we had a lot of laughs about.

It was a lot of fun.

And it was like, you know, we knew my wife was Irish but never thought we were Irish on my side of the family.

What did you think you were before?

Speaker 1

My mom was half Italian, half Polish and some other things, but she was basically raised Italian.

And then my father would primarily say he was German, sometimes French and Austrian.

What you know that that neck of the woods?

But then my daughter came back like 90 something percent Irish and it was like, what the heck is that?

So you all had a good, good laugh about it and and she's like, dad, you got to go take this test.

Just find out what the heck you are.

So I'm like, sure, what harm could that do?

So who knew?

This last word and so your daughter, she told you, OK, go take this test, figure out what's going on with you because obviously her mother, your daughter's mother is obviously largely Irish as well.

When you saw her results did anything like Ping for you?

Were you like that doesn't line up with what my mom said she was.

Yeah.

And I, I, I think I have a good history now that maybe ignoring red flags along the way, didn't really think too much about it, to be honest with you.

I'm like, my parents were not very forthcoming with any information.

They're kind of secretive.

So it was certainly surprising, but kind of learning new information, par for the course.

And we really didn't pay any attention to like DNA connections at this time.

It was really more about the ethnicity.

It was right around or right before the pandemic started.

My, my daughter got the results.

So I'm like, all right, I'll go get a test and take it.

And so I, I took the test and then the results came back right around the, the start of the pandemic.

And the reason I'm calling that out is right around that time, my mother kind of had a breakdown and she went from very early dementia to like full blown dementia where, you know, it's kind of like as almost as bad as it gets type of thing.

So couldn't really even have a conversation with her during the early part of the pandemic.

We had to get her into assisted living.

She couldn't live by herself.

She needed full time help.

So it was really bad.

But I call that out just from the standpoint of couldn't even ask her any questions about any of the results.

So then I get my results back and you know, I still have some of the Italian in there, but I'm like half Irish, right?

Which kind of aligns up with my daughter's results.

Obviously, again, didn't do a whole lot with it.

Couldn't ask my mother any questions at this point.

So it just kind of kind of sat there for a while.

We had a lot of questions, but really couldn't ask anybody.

My mom has three siblings, couple of them are in their 80's, the ones in their late 70s.

So communication starting to get difficult with that generation.

So we just kind of sat on it.

Another red flag that I ignored was the fact that I really didn't connect with anybody I knew.

Didn't have any any real close connections save for one.

And we'll get to that later.

But no, like, no names that I knew, but not anybody even close in the family tree.

So they were so far distant that, all right, these names might make sense.

They're like second, third, fourth, you know, Cousins twice.

Removed So you're just thinking maybe nobody close to you took the test so there was nothing surprising you didn't have a sibling or a first cousin or anyone show up that you didn't know.

Exactly, exactly.

So there were other irregularities, if you will.

My birth certificate looks very different than my wife's.

We were born geographically close to each other, same county, but our birth certificates look very different.

My wife's was issued, you know, a month or two after she was born.

Mine was issued 14 months after I was born.

And they look different, but they both have our legal names on it with our parents names on it.

So, you know, we always question that, but not too deeply.

You know, it's just one of those oddities.

Again, maybe another red flag that I, you know, conveniently ignored.

Fast forward to 2023.

My mom's been in a sister living for three years and she passes away.

A cousin of mine came up for the funeral, stayed at our house.

The day she was leaving was the day after the funeral.

I said, you know, just for giggles when you get home, it just, her mom couldn't travel to the funeral 'cause she's just, you know, too old at this point.

I said, when you get home to, they live in North Carolina.

I said, when you get home, ask your mom, you know, just for giggles.

It was I adopted, ha ha ha, you know, type of thing.

So she gets home two days later and she calls my wife up.

And my wife was at the store, and she's like, give me a call when you get home, you know?

So my wife comes home, she calls up my cousin.

And it's like, yeah, I did talk to my mom.

And it turns out John is adopted.

So literally, you know, two days after my mother's funeral, I got the news that I was in fact adopted.

So, you know, kind of like a bombshell going going off at that time.

So what part of you, I mean, you kind of said it as like this throwaway comment.

Hey, just just ask your mom, like was I adopted?

Was there some?

I mean, obviously there was some part of you, but was that thought coming more to the top of your mind or what made you ask her that?

Well, she was staying at her house for a couple of days and we got to talking about, you know, the family history and whatnot.

And then she mentioned she was in fact on Ancestry.

And I said, well, I took Ancestry and we didn't connect.

So you know why is that?

You know so?

OK.

So well, that's that's pretty odd.

You know what what's going on here?

So either there's a there's a mistake here or, you know, there's something something wrong.

So, yeah.

So she went home.

And, you know, at the same time, my aunts and uncles, you know, they're calling me because, you know, they're offering condolences about my mom passing away.

And then I'm using it as an opportunity.

Oh, by the way, let me ask you a couple of questions about my.

It became a whole different conversation.

So then I was scheduling time to to talk to them, to just try and get some facts around the situation and just 'cause I knew nothing, literally knew nothing about anything about the situation.

And while I always may have had some suspicions or just thoughts or questions, you know, once it once it becomes a reality, it's for me at least, it was like, you know, a bomb going off.

Absolutely.

So your cousin goes home, calls your wife, says give me a call when you're at home, not at the grocery store.

The Bombshell Call

And.

Drops this bombshell.

What is your first thought first?

Of all, I was like, why I was never told, You know why?

Why didn't they tell me?

Why the secret it you know, I felt like I had a right to know.

Obviously now my parents were my large, very secretive people.

So this was their decision is not shocking to me that they didn't tell me, but it was the not telling me and the fact that OK, well, now both my parents have passed away, so I have no ability to even ask them a question.

I don't know, you know, how much they had to offer per SE, but it just felt like I have no recourse now to get additional information for my parents.

And so that was probably what I was thinking about.

I was trying to think about how can I get information elsewhere.

It's one of the things I, I found like very, very early on through all this.

It's like you want to take action.

You want to do something to feel like you're in control of it, because you feel like you're out of control, like things are beyond your control.

So by taking action, you feel like you're getting your arms around the situation, which may or may not be true, but at least I felt like I had to do something.

Were you able to learn anything from the aunts and uncles and other family members that you connected with?

Yeah, so I talked to two uncles and one aunt.

My mom has two brothers that are living and and one sister.

Honestly, they didn't have much much information other than the fact that my my mom and dad were living with my grandfather at the time and my one uncle was much younger so he was like 17 or 18 at the time.

When they brought me home from the hospital he said, you know, they didn't really talk to him.

He was like a 17 year old kid at the time.

But the one piece of information that was useful was 60 years ago.

But he said, I remember them talking about Catholic Charities.

So that was very helpful.

What I did was I looked up Catholic Charities then on the Internet and fired off an e-mail to the Archdiocese of Newark.

And they came back to me within an hour saying literally within an hour saying you got to reach out to this person or here's an e-mail address for someone that maintains, you know, all of our archives.

So send another e-mail out to the archive place.

And with an hour, I get a phone call from some woman who manages all the archives for North Jersey.

And I, I tell her my story.

And she said, well, if they went through Catholic Charities, there's a chance that there's a file here.

It's $200.00 or $250 for us to research it, blah, blah, blah.

But she said let me do this.

Let me go see if I could find a file on you.

If I find something, I'll let you know.

Then you can fill out the paperwork, submit it, and we'll go from there.

Same day she calls me back.

She's like, I found a file on you and I read it and I think you should fill out the application and send in the check.

So this was like March.

So I did all that and then about a month later I get a report back.

So what she did was she took all the file and she typed up like a two or three page report on the situation.

And it gives me the details of what happened, at least from their perspective.

And so apparently my biological mother was a a sophomore in high school, and I guess she went with her parents to the church and talked about putting the child up for adoption.

The father's parents also came in and there seemed to be, obviously, if you could imagine a little tension there between the two families.

But the bottom line is, I guess it was decided that she would have the child.

She went into a convent somewhere or a home for these type of situations.

But it sounded like some sort of convent, got taken out of school, put into the convent and then apparently had the baby.

And then my parents that adopted me were able to Take Me Home from the hospital.

They took me home from the hospital, you know, like to whatever it is back then two or three days later.

And then for the next year they had follow up visits with the Catholic Charities to see how they're doing and, you know, make sure there's nothing nefarious going on.

And then it looks like after a year they were able to get title to me, so.

Sure, hence the birth certificate.

Exactly.

So that's when the new birth certificate was issued a year, like 14 months later.

OK, well this is a lot for you to take in, I imagine, like reading all of this and reading, you know how you came to be did did the write up list your mother's name, your birth mother's name?

The Birth Certificate

The woman who wrote the report, she she rewrote it from the file so she didn't have to redact any information.

She would only put the first name down of the birth mother and first name of the father.

But what I was able to do though, I guess in the state of New Jersey, you're able to apply to the state to see if in fact an original birth certificate was created.

So I mailed away to capital, which is Trent and where these records are kept.

And there was in fact, I, I was named and there was a birth certificate by the biological parents.

So I, you know, it was born under one name.

But then when my parents got me, I guess three days later they name me something else.

And then fourteen months later, that was a second birth certificate.

So the original birth certificate gave me the mother's name, first and last name.

So I got the mother's name on the birth certificate and no, no father's name.

OK, so he was not listed once you saw her name, did you want to find her?

So, you know, back to my earlier comment, like, yeah, I wanted to do things.

I wanted to take some action.

So between myself and then, you know, my kids are all like, I have three children, 2 girls and a boy.

The girls were sleuthy and trying to find information

And the girls were very into like finding things out and snooping on the Internet and doing all this research and trying to find the biological mom and dad.

So part of me was was yes.

But the longer I went on or went through this process, the less I wanted to do, if that makes any sense.

I, which seems to be a little counter to some of the other people I've heard or listened to on various podcasts that seem to be more gung ho about finding information than I.

I feel early on, I feel like I was being pressured and that might not be the right word, but I felt like everyone around me wanted to know more.

So I felt like I was being pulled into this.

We got to get more information.

We got to find out what's going on.

And while I would like to have maybe more data, I'm very uncomfortable.

And maybe it's just my personality, but I'm very uncomfortable continuing to pursue it.

So as time went on, I, I, I kind of pulled back from doing a lot of that.

That's totally fair, right?

Because it's your life and it's your story to kind of try to navigate and get more information or not.

So you said your daughters were very sleuthy and trying to find information.

Did they identify the biological mother or did they stop at your request?

Both so there was the only like kind of close connection.

There was a half connection or a half sister on ancestry.

So early on I, I sent an e-mail to this person like, hey, looks like we might be half brother and sister.

Do do you know anything just, you know, kind of left it wide open for whatever information you want to get back to me.

And what came back was lukewarm at best.

I'm paraphrasing now, but it wasn't like, hey, I've been looking for you my whole life.

We can glad to hear it wasn't that.

It was.

No, I really don't know anything.

It looks like I might be your niece, but if you find anything out, let me know.

I mean it.

It was like short, sweet, very cold, and it felt unwelcoming.

Now, I could be reading it totally wrong, but I took it that way and I was like, well, you know what?

I'm not going to, I'm not going to pursue it.

But with that information of the connection, my daughter's used that to kind of keep their sleuthing going on.

And they found the biological mother, the woman of Catholic Charities.

She was wonderful in dealing with me.

She couldn't have been nicer.

And she would periodically call me up to see how I'm doing because she knows, you know, this is a lot.

And she really went out of her way just to be nice to me.

And I can't say enough nice things about her, you know?

And so she asked me how things are going.

And I kind of told her this story.

And she said, you know, if you find your biological mother, we could serve as an intermediary if you like.

We, we would reach out to them if, if you're so inclined, if you're uncomfortable doing it.

And that appealed to me more than me reaching out because I am by nature a little bit shy and I, I would have been very uncomfortable calling up and say, hey, mom, Remember Me.

So she offered to write the kind of a generic letter saying, you know, would you be interested in connecting type of thing and sent 2 certified letters and basically no response.

OK, Now, could it could it have not been received?

Possibly.

But I will say my, you know, my daughters and my wife feel good about their sleuthing skills.

So they think they had the right address.

So at that point, I kind of told everyone, listen, I, I don't want you reaching out.

If anyone's going to reach out, it's going to be me.

Stand down.

If someone's going to reach out, I'll do it when I see fit, how I see fit.

But I don't want you guys, you know, kind of stirring up the pot right now.

And they respected that.

So, so that's kind of the end of the story, if you will, as far as researching people and, and trying to find out anything.

The Response

How did you feel when you didn't get a response?

Were you hoping for a response?

Were you sort of OK and accepting of whatever outcome?

Yeah, maybe a little of both.

You know, part of me wanted to know, but part of me like, do I really want to get in?

Do I really want to do this where I know I've heard other people like they're so excited and can't wait to meet biological mom and sister and this and that It were.

I was more scared, afraid of the unknown.

You know, I don't have tremendously close relationships with my my sisters.

So how many other bad relationships do you need?

You know, so, so, you know, part of me was like, yeah, if, if I knew it was going to be wonderful, I would jump into it.

But that hasn't been my experience per SE.

So maybe a little disappointment, but a little relief at the same time did.

You know anyone who was adopted or you know friends, family, or was this all new to you?

The Importance of Family and Friends

Because like you said, you uncovered you could do a request for your original birth certificate in the state of New Jersey and you found Catholic Charities and you're doing all of this research.

Did you have anything to go off of when you were starting this?

NO0II.

And I may be missing a lot that I don't know about, but no, I don't.

I didn't know anyone who was adopted who went through this who could provide any, any guidance.

It seemed to happen fairly easily, finding some of this stuff.

But yeah, I really didn't know what I was doing.

I'm looking into this and I had no help, you know?

So your sisters, you mentioned that you have sisters.

To your knowledge, are they the biological children of your parents?

Yeah, so it this is a like a little weird 1 So my parents were married in 1958 and then they adopted me in 64 late 64.

So, you know, 6 plus years later and then I have two sisters 17 years younger and the other is 8 years younger than me.

So big gap between us.

The youngest 1 is a bit estranged, but the, the older of the two, we communicate a little bit.

So I, I told her the story and you know, her first rejection is like, Oh my God, I thought I was the one who was adopted, you know, because she, she's got blonde hair that, you know, everyone else had dark hair.

She had blonde hair.

But I, I actually remember my mom being pregnant with them.

So, so I, I, you know, they're biological children.

Growing up, did you ever feel like you didn't quite fit in?

Feeling like you didn’t belong

You know, we hear that a lot, right?

But for some people, they really didn't know.

Yeah, 1000%.

That's something my wife and I talked about even for years and years, how I felt like I did not belong.

And maybe part of it's my personality.

Very, very different than my parents.

Especially my dad was very gregarious.

He walked in the room.

He was the loud one, the funny one, but a totally different sense of humor than myself.

I couldn't be more different.

My father like basically built an addition on our house and I can't even screw in a light bulb.

I mean it's just night and date different.

He must have been so disappointed.

In fact, I couldn't help him with it, couldn't even deliver the right tool when he asked me for it.

I mean no exaggeration.

I just had no inclination.

To this day, I, so along the way, I, I, my wife and I would always say how different I was and I would always say I don't feel like I even belong there.

And it was really reassuring in many ways to hear other people say that because I carried a lot of guilt for that through the years of, Oh, I just don't feel like I belong here.

So it's not like I'm playing the results now saying, see, I, I feel like I didn't belong.

Did you have any anger towards your parents for keeping this from you or empathy?

Embracing the Adoption Journey

Yeah, so, and this is something my wife and I talk about a lot.

She's angry, but my wife is angry about it.

And we've been together since I'm 17.

So we've we grew up together essentially, right.

She's angry from, I think being protective of me standpoint, you know, so and I get that, but I'm not angry.

And I don't know if that's the right emotion or wrong emotion, but I, I know, I know my parents loved me.

It wasn't that they didn't love me.

So I think they came at it from, in their opinion, they, they, they felt that was the best choice not to tell me.

They didn't want me to feel different.

They wanted me to feel like I was, you know, just theirs, period.

And I, I'm speaking to my uncle who was living with them when he was 17.

You know, they all disagreed with my parents not telling me.

But there's one thing he can say about my father's You couldn't change his mind.

If he felt like that was the right decision.

No one was going to change his opinion and he just in his opinion was he did not want me to feel like I was different or not loved.

So so because of that I'm not I don't agree with their decision, but I don't I don't have any anger over it.

So.

And I, you know what?

I get enough poems.

I don't need anger, you know, so.

And I mean, hey there.

There is no right or wrong emotion.

I do think it's really interesting that even back then the consensus from the family was you should disclose because we hear sometimes for adoption and especially donor conception that the advice was if you don't have to tell them, don't you know, just let them think.

So it's interesting that the family was encouraging them to to disclose to you.

And one of the other frustrating things about all this is, you know, as I've talked to different cousins, it's like, yeah, everyone knew but me, You know, like, even though it was supposed to be this big secret, right, people tell their own children.

They don't have to keep lies up for other people.

So in speaking to my cousins, they're like, we thought you knew or.

Yeah, yeah, we all knew.

And everyone knew but you apparently.

So that's that's it.

That's annoying to me for sure.

That's one of the things I was probably most annoyed about from the standpoint of, as I mentioned earlier, I think I'm accused and I think it's true that I'm shy and I don't want to be the maybe center of attention.

And now I feel like I'm the story, like, and maybe most people don't care.

I get it.

But it feels like I'm the story and I don't want to be the story.

Like, oh, here's the adopted guy who just found out what an idiot, you know?

And you know, you just feel stupid.

You really feel stupid.

I've heard that a lot.

You're definitely not alone in that feeling.

I've also talked to people who they don't really tell other people about their story because they don't want to be the subject of gossip essentially, right, Like, oh, did you hear about this or that?

You know, even among sometimes they're friends, they they don't talk about it a lot because they don't want to be the center of attention or, or have the focus of this on them.

Yeah, that's a good point.

I, I mean, I'm not listen, I'm not going to perpetuate their lie of not of keeping it a secret per SE.

I don't tend to be the center of attention telling stories about myself.

So, you know, close friends I've told, but, you know, it's not something that we've a flag saying I'm an adoptee or something, but I'm not hiding it.

I don't feel like it's an embarrassment or I'm ashamed of it.

So, so yeah, I, I'm, I'm comfortable with it from a standpoint of talking about it, but it, it's not something that it kind of raise up proactively, you know?

I'm curious how discovering that you were adopted has played into or affected your identity.

How Has Discovering Adoption Affected Your Identity?

And the reason why I'm asking is because I noticed that when you were telling your story and relaying what you learned, you refer to your biological mother as the birth mother and you refer to yourself as the baby.

So have you internalized the story?

Like do you think of yourself as being part of it or is it kind of, I don't want to say detached, but is it something maybe that you haven't integrated into who you are?

It's a good question.

I'm not sure I have a good answer.

I feel like I've integrated and accepted it at this point.

Sometimes it gets confusing telling the story on like Like how do I identify each each person?

Sure.

No, that's fair.

But I feel like as much as I've can come to terms with it, I feel like I, I got it at this point.

It is what it is.

It's, it's not going away.

It's just part of my story now.

Although, you know, a lot of people don't even ask me about it.

Like people that I've told they, it's like for them, it's no big deal.

You know what I mean?

Like no one, no one's ever asked me like a follow up like Hey, how you doing outside of my wife?

Like so for them it's just no big deal.

Like it's it's hey, you told us you're adopted.

We still love you move on type of thing where meanwhile, my whole world's blown apart and at least the first year and a half were quite a struggle.

So it's it, it's funny where people came to would, would say when I told them the story, they were like, oh, but you're still family.

We love you.

And that's like kind of the end of it in their mind.

Meanwhile, internally, you're you're you're a basket case.

You know, sure, Yeah.

The Impact of Genetics on Identity

Without connecting with your biological mother, have you been able to learn anything, maybe just from like a family history or medical perspective that can maybe inform some of who you are with this new information?

No, really, really nothing.

I mean, the only thing I know is now I'm Irish.

I mean, when I grew up, we were raised Italian and like, in our neck of the woods, the Italians don't like the Irish.

So like, I couldn't even wear green on Saint Patrick's Day and now suddenly I'm Irish, you know?

How do you come to terms with that?

Like, do you still identify strongly with your Italian, I mean adopted, but you know, your Italian heritage that you were raised in, Is that still a big part of who you are?

Well, we eat Italian a lot, but other than that, like, yeah, no, I guess not really.

I mean, it, it's kind of funny.

We we, we, we joke a ton about it.

Suddenly I'm Irish, you know, my wife's family's, they're like Irish Americans and they, you know, all wave the flag.

And now suddenly I'm on the team.

But before that I was on the wrong team.

But now, now that I can play nice with them.

So yeah, it's it's comical to me in that, that regard.

But I don't have any inkling to, you know, anything about my family or medical history or anything like that.

And that, that, you know, that's a little frustrating, obviously, but I, I, you know, it, it is what it is at this point.

Yeah, you took 23andMe, so perhaps you got some medical insights from taking that.

Otherwise, how have you kind of landed to a place of acceptance with the gaps in your understanding of your background?

Finding acceptance

Well, I mean, I'm just like I said, the first year or two were tough, right?

It's just like 2 years now on top of like grieving for a parent who dies after having three years of dementia.

And you know, that's not a fun road to travel.

That was a very difficult period.

And then, you know, the passing of my mom and then, you know, I was the executive of the state.

So he had all that stuff going on and then at the same time the adoption stuff going on.

So it was just busy craziness for like, you know, six months there.

Once the dust settles and then you start thinking about it, you know, I, I guess time is the only thing that that heals it, right.

It gets a little bit easier every day.

And and, you know, I think, you know, maybe after a year or so, I I came to grips with, you know, this is what I know if I learn more or meet anybody along the way, OK, but I'm more than OK not meeting anybody.

I got enough people that love me around me.

My wife is been like the most amazing resource through all this.

You know, she couldn't have been a better support system through all this.

I'm comfortable with it.

The one thing I'm evolving my position on is I think if my children want to reach out, I'm I'm now of the opinion, listen, they they have a skin in the game here.

Even though it's my life, It's unfair.

I think for of me to say, listen, don't, don't do anything.

If they want to find out and learn more, have at it.

But just don't expect me to jump in and start meeting people like that's not what I'm going to do.

But I do think it might be unfair of me to say, listen, don't reach out if if in fact they want to.

I I like that you acknowledge that your position is evolving on it, and also that you are thinking about your kids and how maybe this would affect them as well because it's their genetic history as much as it's yours.

I think it's important, but to recognize what you said, which is that you work in the midst of grief.

And, you know, with dementia, it's a long grieving process too.

So it's a lot that was thrown at you to then learn that information in a situation that would have been a lot for anyone to manage without finding out that they were adopted in the midst of all of that.

Yeah, the timing could not have been worse, you know?

It just wasn't the best time to learn that because you were already upset.

I was just, there was so much going on.

Your, your nerves are frayed.

And then you get this phone call.

Are you sitting down?

And it's like, Oh no, you know, it's like it, it was just not good.

Have you connected with anyone in the adoptee community and has that been helpful to you at all?

The best thing that ever in in this whole process.

I was on a work trip one day up in upstate New York and I happened to overhear a a Co worker telling someone about being adopted.

And I had known this person for 15 years, never knew she was adopted.

And I literally, literally overheard it, heard like telling someone else.

So when she was finished, I walked over to her and said, hey, you have a minute, can I pick your brain about something?

And she's like, yeah, sure.

So a little while later, we went into a conference room and I said, listen, I just, I apologize, but I overheard you Speaking of so and so saying you were adopted.

And I went on to give her my tale of glow.

And we talked for about an hour and a half.

And it was the most cathartic thing for me in this whole process, being able to talk to somebody who went through something similar.

And what was it really interesting was she had the same opinion of me of really not wanting to really meet the biological parents.

And she, too, felt like she was being pressured to do that.

So I don't know if it was Misery Loves Company or two minds thinking alike, but it was very nice to hear someone else have the same process as you.

And just talking to her for that hour and a half was was really, really helpful to me.

That was one of the reasons when I saw your group that you have on those Thursday nights was probably the main reason I joined that because I found that the conversation listening to someone else's story so helpful.

And likewise, when I I listen to your podcast and listen to the folks on the call echo so many things that I feel and say that you think you're on an island.

You think you're guilty for feeling or having certain feelings and certain thoughts that it was very helpful to hear other people share their story and makes you feel like you're not in this alone and you're not.

You don't feel bad for having certain thoughts.

So you, you asked me earlier about, you know, feeling like you don't belong.

You know, I hear that so often now, but you know, I went, I went 59 years of feeling like an idiot for having that thought.

And here's how all these people out there that have the same feeling that I do.

And it it just, it, it's very helpful.

I'll just leave it at that.

Good.

I know you kind of for now sort of have like a period on the end of the sentence with this, although you are open to what your children may want to do in the future.

What’s next for you?

What's next for you in this experience?

Where would you say that you are now?

I think I've come to grips with it certainly still have emotional days and it's not like I'm even thinking about the adoption, but I think since the my mom passed away in this have become more emotional.

So I'm hopeful over time I'll be less emotional, but I can cry at the drop of a hat these days.

In speaking to people going to some therapy, they they see that as a good thing where I struggle to see that as a good thing sometimes.

But, you know, I think just the more time or water that goes under the bridge, the, the, the more I'll feel better about the whole thing.

I mean, I've accepted it, but it's still, it's still a lot and it never goes away.

I've become better at compartmentalizing it.

It's always going to be there and I and that's OK.

If, in fact, my children do reach out and make any connections, that's going to be difficult.

If I don't get involved, it will bring a certain amount of stress that I'm probably not looking forward to.

What advice do you have for a parent?

Advice for parents

Maybe if you could go back in time and talk to your parents who are keeping adna surprise from their child.

Yeah, so my wife and I have spoken about this and, and we we've debated what would be the right time.

So originally I was like, well, I know 59 is not the right answer telling them.

So I was saying, well, they should have told me when they're 18 and or 21 or whatever.

But my wife's opinion, and I now fully agree with her, I think is it it should never be a surprise.

So from day one, be open and honest about how you came into our life, right?

Babies can come into families in different ways and you came in through adoption.

And this way, it's never a surprise.

You know, you you may have to tell them more or add to the story along the way more facts.

But if if you start on day one or you know when they're, you know, two years old or whatever and explain, Hey, you were adopted, like and just make it as part of the family story from day one, then it's never a surprise and it's just, it is what it is.

There's because it when I think back about it, even if my parents told me at 18 or 21, I still would have been crushed.

You know, I still would have been like, why didn't you told me at 16 or 15?

You're like, it's going to be a bomb whenever it goes off if you're doing it like a surprise.

So I would just, and I have to give my wife credit, it's not my idea, but I would do it from from the start.

Yeah, I like your wife's perspective on that.

Just because it becomes part of your identity, like you said, just from the beginning.

And it doesn't shift your identity at some formative age or later after you've had a family and been married.

And yeah, just is a part of you.

It's always a part of you.

Yeah, and, and, and part of me is like acts of omission are lies, you know, just tell me the truth.

Just be honest, open.

And, you know, you don't have to lie if you're not telling me something that's a lie.

Just be be transparent, you know?

And what advice would you offer to someone who just uncovered ADNA?

Advice for someone who just uncovered ADNA

Surprise, like finding out that they were adopted.

I think just be true to your emotions.

Everyone around you is gonna have a different opinion or maybe an opinion that's different than yours.

But I would say, you know, you have to do what's right for you at your own speed and it, you know, your own time and just, you know, it's not gonna be easy getting help or, or finding a sympathetic voice or someone to help you, at least for me, was very helpful.

So having my wife was very helpful.

You know, I probably couldn't have gotten through this without her.

But also finding outside resources and people that have been through this, you know, it's amazing once this happened to me to realize how many other people have stories like this.

I just never realized there's so much of this out there.

And because of that, there's support for you.

And I think, you know, sometimes people might be ashamed to reach out.

But at least in in my case, even if you just sit back and listen to other people's stories to know that you're not in this alone and there's other people like you out there.

Like I said earlier, maybe it's misery Loves company, but I found that very helpful.

Time will make it hopefully a little bit better, but you have to just do it what you feel is right.

There are resources and there's groups out there and they are very helpful, so don't be afraid to ask for help.

John, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today and sharing your unique story.

I really appreciate you sharing your perspective and how finding out that you were adopted affected you.

Like we talked about it, it affects everybody differently, and it was nice to hear your perspective as well.

And I just wish you the best as you move forward and continue to navigate this.

And thank you.

And I really want to say thanks for what you're doing with your your podcast and the support groups.

It's been immensely helpful for me.

So for that I want to thank you.

Thanks again to John for sharing his story.

If you have adna surprise that you'd like to share, please submit your story at dnasurprises.com.

And if you'd like to join us at one of the third Thursday meetups that John referenced in this episode, you can find more information at dnasurprises.com/events.

Finally, be sure to join me for early access to AD free episodes over on patreon@patreon.com/DNA.

Surprises.

Until next time.

This episode of DNA Surprises was hosted, produced and edited by me, Alexis Ourselt.

It was mixed and mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording Studios.