Kim’s DNA Surprise

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

Speaker 1

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Speaker 2

Technology DNA.

All of this modern tools have been huge in making this stuff happen so it makes the world from Texas to New York, a lot smaller a lot.

A lot quicker to navigate, imagine spitting into a tube, sending off your DNA.

And unknowingly turning your life upside down for me and thousands of others.

This is our reality.

I'm your host Alexis ourselves in July of 2021, I discovered that I am an NP e.

Someone who has experienced a non paternal event.

In other words my biological father isn't who I thought he was this podcast shares.

The journeys of people who were shocked by a DNA Discovery.

Mostly through Modern DNA testing.

We're telling the stories of NP, he's adoptees and donor.

Conceived people and their families.

This is DNA surprises.

One of the things we talked about often within the DNA surprise Community is the ripple effect surprises.

Don't just affect npes donor, conceived people and adoptees.

They affect their parents, their children, friends spouses and other family members.

In this week's episode, Kim shares, how she helped uncover.

The complicated story of her Grandma, Mary, who had several MPE children, she discusses what step she took to put the pieces together, and how her work has affected her relationship with her dad.

Thank you, Kim for sharing your story.

I am Kim.

And I'm 42 and I am from South Texas.

My DNA surprise story is probably a little different than some

They're on the podcast that it's not surprising that.

I knew that my dad was adopted, it wasn't hidden from him, he was adopted around the age of eight.

So he knew you know, that he had a mom and a dad and that he was put into foster care and adopted.

And so of course I always knew that none of that was was ever a secret.

But as I get through the story of kind of, figure out a whole lot of things weren't really known, even though, you know you're adopted, you don't always know the whole story. 3.

So my dad was adopted out of East Texas and in 1966, my awesome, awesome.

Grandparents, Richard and Elsie adopted him along with his oldest brother.

Steve, they also went on to adopt another daughter named Sherry from from a different family but all of their kids they weren't able to have kids of their own so they adopted from Foster Care.

My grandparents were amazing.

Everybody that knew them.

Loved them.

Probably the two best.

You could have picked to adopt a bunch of kids from foster care anyway.

So they adopted my dad and my uncle Steve, my dad was eight almost nine, so he's adopted in June of 66 and on the way home from being adopted in East Texas, and go and driving to South Texas.

My grandmother said, you have a birthday coming up.

Would you like to have a party?

And he said, sure.

You know, I've never had a birthday party, so he was really excited.

He didn't really clarify with her.

But evidently this is like my favorite story of his adoption early years with my grandparents.

Evidently went door-to-door on his own up and down.

His brand new street that he moved into his so glad to have a family and he introduced himself and said hi, I'm Frank.

I just got adopted, I have a family here and will you come to my birthday party?

And so one day, my grandmother got a phone call and she this woman called her and said, hey, did you just Adopting a boy named Frank.

And she said, yes, and she said, well, he's inviting the whole neighborhood to his birthday.

So my grandmother was like, yes, where we will have a party.

So it was just a great fit, right from the start.

And I think that's part of the reason that up until now nobody had really, really dug in maybe a to try and find some of the history or the, you know, of his birth parents, you don't really want to betray the adoptive parents and again and that none of that was Hidden from him.

But, you know, even for me, I kind of was like, well, I had wonderful grandparents growing up.

Do I really need to know who my biological Grandparents were anyway?

As years went by my dad, you know, here in South Texas that my mom got married.

Very early.

Not long after high school.

They got married.

I had me fairly quickly.

And then quickly got divorced.

I actually don't even remember my parents married, so I was under two.

I think when they got divorced and growing up with divorced parents things, A little strained between me and my dad during the teenagers and then as I became an adult, they went from strained to even estranged.

For certain times, we had certain fallings out in would go, you know, year, two or more without talking.

And then it kind of, you know, reunite a little bit.

So, it was kind of on, again, off, again, relationship with my dad, but one thing that really held the story together, help my relationship with my dad together was, in my early years.

Of growing up my dad.

He took me to church and he shared his faith with me and just basically started my Foundation as a believer in Jesus.

And it stuck with me and it helped, you know, to form me in really, really had an impact over the years and it eventually the story kind of comes full circle and see where that, you know, Foundation started and where it is now.

So fast forward to 2020 Summer of 2020.

At that point, I wasn't actually speaking with my dad, I hadn't talked to him for about a year or so, and as everybody knows in the summer 2020 or spring of twenty twenty basically the world stopped turning.

Yeah, you know, everything was shut down for covid and I discovered podcasts.

So, I started listening to some.

I was referred to a cool podcast called unashamed.

The Robertson family from Duck Dynasty, is runs that podcast.

And it was just, it was a God thing.

But one of the First episodes, I listened to was a story about Phil Robertson, the, the founder of Duck Commander.

He threw DNA figured out that he had a daughter that he didn't know about.

And he admits and in his very open with, you know, he was a running around on his wife.

Miss Kay, eventually finds out that through that running around time, a daughter came out of that and their story of redeeming that relationship that Miss Kay were reconciled and Miss Kay accepting the daughter that her husband had.

You know, while having an affair just really resonated with me and I was like, wow, that that is an awesome story.

And it got me thinking I'm like, okay well I don't know, my grandparents, this DNA stuff.

I of course I'm 42, I'm not ancient.

I know a little bit about technology but I was like, okay, well they use DNA to solve crimes.

I didn't realize they were using it so much to find people.

I knew that people stumbled upon Surprises.

But I was like, wow.

Okay well maybe I can use this to find.

You know who my grandparents were.

I knew going into this that my dad had actually gone to physically.

Look at Courthouse records from Beaumont.

Was the town that he was adopted out of and you know, he went there in the 90s didn't have a lot of luck trying to find physical records.

The only thing that I knew was my grandparents might be eligible, grandparents names.

And we'll call them Grandma Mary.

She also went by Marianne.

But Mary Grandma, Mary and her husband who was referred to as my grandfather went by the nickname of Lucky.

So we'll call him lucky Grandpa lucky.

I'm just wondering what kind of

Drew you or made you curious to find your biological grandparents, that sounds like you had a great relationship with her adoptive grandparents, the ones who adopted your dad, was it something that you were always curious about or did listening to that podcast?

Really /.

Hey, maybe I could find these people.

How did that

come up?

A little bit of both curiosity.

Always, you know, when you go to the doctor and you fill out paperwork and your, you know, Dad's side of the family and I'm like, I don't know they're medically.

I don't know what runs in the family because I don't know, you know, write any of that side of the family.

So there always was a little curiosity and always kind of like you know, you look in the mirror and it's like, well do I really do?

I do.

I look like somebody else on that side.

Emily.

I've I look a lot like my dad so I'm like, okay, you know, where did the word?

It looks come in.

So curiosity, was there.

But that actual shove to go?

Hey, you can actually find something out, you know, knowing my dad physically gone and looked before and then we just didn't know, a whole lot was just kind of like, okay, well, that we just don't know.

But hearing that podcast and I was like, DNA, let's give it a shot.

You know, just seemed like a more modern approach to researching and genealogy.

And digging rather than going and looking at like physical Courthouse records.

And obviously, anybody who's done this DNA and genealogy research knows that names that are on records, are not always correct.

You know, people are listed as fathers and that doesn't turn out to be correct.

So really, it was, I guess the combination of curiosity and, you know, a spark from from hearing somebody else's story was like, at this, this is possible in this day and age.

Hmm, I went on to Sister e.com ordered a test, I was like, okay, here goes nothing.

Just to see what came up and, however, long it takes to get your results back.

I wasn't like, oh my gosh, I have to know right this second because, you know, it's already been that time 40 years.

So, you know, it was, it wasn't huge rush, but of course, I was excited.

You know, your results are in.

Okay, great, click on it, by very first matches.

My mom.

She was already did already tested on there, which made it very easy to kind of sort through.

Mom's Side, Bad Side next match.

Was my Aunt, Jeanette, of course.

I didn't know she was my aunt.

I just saw this close match.

I mean, next one, right?

Behind my mom.

And I knew nothing, I hadn't been on any ancestry groups or DNA groups.

I, I did everything wrong, but it ended up being great.

You know, I didn't screenshot anything.

I didn't research anything.

I instantly sent her a message and said, hey, I'm Kim my dad's Frank.

And this is the story.

Who are you?

And I was like, okay well I didn't know how long it would be until she would reply.

So I started digging with what I knew.

I knew my grandmother's name.

Mary married to lucky.

I thought.

Okay, well let's just start from there.

Well, very quickly.

I found a lot of records for her.

The first one that was really striking was some social security information that had, like six different last names listed and I was like, wow, okay, Grandma Mary was married a lot.

So who was this lady?

D, why did she end up?

Having her kids in foster care?

You know, I was really curious and then looking for Lucky's side there, wasn't anything.

I was the name that Lucky's last name was nowhere to be a about be found, no associations with that.

So just like, I really don't know who he is.

I don't, I don't really know what's going on there.

So I just kind of focused on Grandma, Mary at first again, I still disappoint wasn't talking to my dad or hadn't spoken in like over a year.

So I knew going into this.

Okay, I have these results, I'm Researching my grandmother and I know a bit of the background just from what my dad told me and he hadn't really shared every single thing with me growing up about his childhood.

But what I did know was that growing up in East Texas, Grandma Mary and lucky were heavy drinkers drunk, a lot.

Lucky worked out of town a lot and Grandma, Mary brought men back to the house frequently.

She was known in that time and in the late 50s, early 60s, she was known as a rounder.

Evidently a woman who got around.

And so my dad was that's just kind of what he knew about her.

And he did remember her leaving them him, and he has brothers that he grew up with.

So he remembers his brother, his oldest brother, Steve.

His next older brother, Danny and him his sister.

This is going to be another Grandma.

Mary, like the name Mary and Marian's, it's going to come up.

A lot of folks

will refer to his sister's Marian Gail, so it was Steve, Danny Marion Gail Frank, and Robert.

So there's these five kids, they're left alone a lot and eventually you know, Grandma Mary.

It has men over and Grandma Mary leaves for periods of time will eventually he remembers her very vividly packing a bag.

Walking out the front door and getting into a car with a man, and he never saw her again to this day and that had a big impact on him.

Obviously, When lucky got home, and the kids were there by themselves, he really didn't know what to do.

And so he tried to hire a babysitter that didn't work out and basically the kids were left completely alone.

They lived in a rented house.

And when the landlord came to collect the rent, he figured out, you know, there's just kids here, wears an adult and they didn't have any money to pay the rent and so, she had left a fake fur stole in the closet.

They you know, being kids and thinking maybe this is worth something offered it to the landlord as rent and he was like, that's not going to work and he called child protective services and they were picked up and taken into foster care.

So I knew, you know, the that she had abandoned them.

So I knew that part of her history and part of their history, the kids were separated in foster care for whatever reason.

I guess today they think they try and keep kids together.

I don't know if they did that as much in the 50s or 60s but they ended up keeping my dad and my uncle Steve together.

His oldest brother his two other brothers Danny and Robert were taken separately into foster care at this point.

Marion Gail had passed away again.

Part of the neglect.

They were in a car ride of road trip, and my dad was for marrying.

Guilt was five.

They were in the back seat of the car and he was explaining a Grandma Mary, you know?

She's really sick.

She you know and this is age of four like my sister sick.

This is not just, she has a cold, something is very wrong with her.

And so he talked about Mary and pulling over she pulled into a hospital in Tuscaloosa, Alabama and Marion Gil, promptly died in that hospital.

She had Encephalitis.

So you know they, yeah.

They had been through a lot.

They, the four boys had been taken into foster care eventually were all adopted the adoptive parents were made aware.

FCPS I guess made them aware like hey you were adopting one child or in the case of my grandparents are adopting two boys but they have brothers and so the all of the adoptive parents knew of each other and they all lived in Texas and they all over the years made it a point to get the boys together.

So my dad and his other brothers Still kept in touch even though they weren't adopted together and didn't live together.

Hmm.

So, that was really cool.

I've seen some cool pictures of them growing up.

So so this, you know, just kind of went through stuff that I'm seeing about.

Grandma Mary you know ancestry documents Social Security, you know, birth certificate system.

That was like, wow, okay, she's she's got a lot going on.

Well, very quickly I want to say within a day or two, my Jeanette replies.

She was ecstatic.

She just was on cloud nine.

And she said, I knew we had brothers, and I was like, what you had brothers and she said, we knew she said we were told that we had brothers and tell Texas.

And she said, I've looked I've tried I tried to find the brothers, but I never could find them.

And she said, she actually spoke with my grandmother while she was on her deathbed.

And said, what did you do with the boys?

You told us we had Brothers what happened to them and she would never tell.

So Jeanette.

Just she never knew what, you know, she's like, I was told I had Brothers, she believed that they were alive but she never knew how to find them.

She didn't know their names, she didn't know what happened to them.

Grandma Mary wouldn't say needless to say, Jeanette was beside herself.

That the brothers, the brothers have been found.

How are they?

How many are there?

You know what?

So basically, I was filling her in on this is this is the life in Texas.

Where are you?

And she was like, I'm in New York.

I was like what?

A little far away.

I'm sorry.

How did yeah, how did she get from New York to Texas and Jeanette said and there's sisters their sisters that that are here in New York.

So It filled me in, on her side of the story.

So Grandma, Mary had quite a story before she even had my dad and his brothers and his sister here.

So it turns out Grandma Mary had three daughters in New York

and these girls are older.

Yes yes this is her first.

I called her children batches of children.

So Grandma Mary was born in a certain area of New York and she was pregnant at 16 and she with my aunt Mary Ann again more.

Marry my Aunt Mary and pregnant with Mary Ann.

And she married a man named Armando, we're not sure if she knew that Armando was the father of the kids, just, you know, we'll we'll go in her history of all the father's, but she ended up marrying Armando.

She had Mary Ann.

She had my Aunt Lynn and she had my Aunt Jeanette and so Jeanette.

Aunt, Jeanette just starts telling her story and her story sounds so So much, like the story of what happened to my dad and his brothers Grandma Mary had left the girls Marianne was maybe four and Jeanette was a baby and Grandma.

Mary would leave them.

They, at this point, we're living in Bronx, the Bronx, New York, she would leave them.

She would go to bars during the day.

If Armando was at work, she was gone out with men.

She would leave them again with no food leaving, very young children to take care of even younger children.

At one point, they remember being left for quite a long time and Grandma Mary never came back and the story that they heard from their dad Armando was that their mom ran off with a text and she met at a bar we're like, okay, so this is how we get from New York to Texas.

So the girls had thought, okay, well, she went immediately to Texas.

She left with the text and she left the state but she didn't.

She was living in the Bronx.

She made her way to Manhattan with lucky the Texan.

She had my uncle Steve.

Eve, in Manhattan.

She had my uncle Danny, and Brooklyn.

She had my Aunt Marion Gail and the Bronx, she becomes pregnant with my dad, and that's when they make their way to Texas, eventually they're settled in East Texas and she has her last child that we know of Robert.

So, this is eight kids.

So we hear my dad's story, Jeanette story, she has eight kids.

I was like, okay, I have to tell my dad first of all that I found he has a sister, you know, I haven't spoken to him.

Year.

But we're putting all these pieces together and I sent my dad a message.

I don't really know what he thought about it because every night I think he was pretty surprised.

I'm assuming he was like, oh okay, you know, like what he was pretty sounded pretty floored just because that probably wasn't.

He wasn't expecting to hear from me and he wasn't expecting to hear about his sister's.

You know that any bit there were any their childhood was really chaotic as you can imagine.

So he Wasn't really sure a lot about the

history.

Ya did.

So you mentioned that he kind of did a little bit of his own digging to try to find her.

And his father earlier, what were his feelings about his parents?

Has he shared those with you?

Obviously.

He was curious to find.

So,

yes, he has.

I think it's been a process coming from a traumatic childhood like that.

And so, it's a really welcoming loving home and then, Kind of processing what you've been through.

You know, what the way people were, what your memories.

He's was very open.

I remember being in church when I was young and he shared his testimony, about going through foster care and in some of the bad experiences there, you know, I'm sure there could have been a lot of resentment there anger hurt, you know, about being abandoned, being left in foster care and things, not going great there.

But he never seemed super angry or resentful.

I think luckily by the grace of God just Just landing in the lap of my grandparents.

My adoptive grandparents.

And just he always just seem to be more thankful for what he had rather than being angry for what he didn't.

He is pretty well adjusted from the whole thing, if you can think of it that way.

Yeah.

What were what were your thoughts about?

Your Grandma, Mary, as you're learning all of this about her, I know he had told you his story, then you find an aunt.

Like what were your your thoughts because you were curious about about connecting?

Yeah, yeah, my thoughts were at first lady what in the world were you doing?

Just, you know, I just thought what?

At first I just thought was just terrible mom.

You know, you have a batch of three kids and you leave them, you have a batch of five kids, one dies, and then you leave them.

Like what what?

What?

But why, why are you doing this?

I'm a generation removed from it.

So it didn't happen to me but I have got to talk to my cousin's through my newfound aunt's.

My uncle's that there's, you know, generational, trauma that can come out of this and their stories, are their stories to tell my aunts and uncles again, were they were all abandoned.

Some of them were adopted, you know, different situations.

And they have their own.

Yeah, life after that but listening to Mike Resins and talking about our parents, our parents generation like all of the kids that were left by Grandma.

Mary.

We're like, wow, we now can see why our parents, maybe did things the way they did things, you know, it gave all of us.

I think a huge perspective on forgiveness and Grace and you know, if my parent wasn't a perfect parent, well maybe there's a reason, you know like cut them, some slack, they've been through a lot, you know, just hearing this and realizing wow this you know, they They've been through a lot.

This was this was pretty Broughton childhood you know that that none of them asked for.

Yeah, I

wasn't even though it didn't happen to you it's really interesting to hear how it trickles down the generator.

Ripple

effect.

Yep, absolutely.

Oh, for sure for sure.

So we're seeing that, you know, play out over time, just seeing you know, ultimately looking at the generational trauma, the ripple effect of you know what she did and how it affected my My dad and his siblings, you know, how their parenting might have been different with us because of what they've been through.

Gave me just a big perspective like whoa, like okay, I am forgiving my dad for anything that I may have seen as a deficiency or slight, you know, over the years.

And I'm forgiving Grandma Mary, I don't know what her childhood was like that made her, you know, contributed to her making these decisions.

So I, you know, Looking back, it's easy to be critical and judgmental, but I think a lot of us going through this and figuring this out, have a little more grace now and it doesn't make everything that she did right, obviously.

But moving forward, we, you know, it's like well, you can be bitter about this or you can process it and, and give it to God and move on.

So I think that's definitely what, what at least I know my dad has done and what I've done with it.

We learn, you know, Grandma Mary story which was really chaotic.

But again, where's lucky?

We have all these kids.

Now we have eight kids and nothing at least for my Dad shows that lucky is his dad.

So I start putting on my DNA matched genealogy hat, and start digging.

So, I've never done any of this before, but by golly, I was going to figure it out.

I didn't know anything about the Leeds method or anything.

I'm like that I just start clicking shared matches making lists stacks of paper I of course not knowing anything.

Instantly start messaging.

Cousins first or her half first cousins have second cousins on my grandfather's side.

Again, this is supposed to be lucky.

It's we figured out it's not.

I was a very fortunate to stumble upon or be in touch with two in particular.

Cousins on my grandfather side who were kind of the Historians.

They had crazy trees.

They were super helpful.

They were like, okay, we we're in.

We obviously were related to you.

Let's do this.

So I reached out to my dad, I told him all this and he said well I'm going to test to I said you know it would help if you tested because you're one generation closer to your father and you know will maybe show us a little bit more a littl little clearer if you test you.

So tell you what these cousins.

I'm Grandpa's side.

You know, I'm looking there looking and we kind of have it nailed down to a couple brothers and I named off one brother and they're like, no he was just that's probably not him but he just wouldn't be the fella.

Okay, what about this other brother Ross?

Him hair?

Like, that's your debts your man and so I was like oh boy, okay, evidently Grandpa Ross was around her as well.

Okay, so they it was like I was like wow, I've heard this word before.

He is programmable, Mary thought, okay?

So these really awesome cousins said, hey we actually know Frost his daughter.

He has a living daughter who if we're correct, will be your aunt, your dead sister we're going to reach out to her, let her know what we've seen here through DNA and see give her your information and see if she's interested in talking to you pretty quickly.

My new Aunt, Linda messaged and said, I'm Linda, dad was Ross, I not surprised if a child came out of the woodwork.

Our dad liked the ladies and there was a time when he was running around me said, okay, so Linda tested and of course she's my dad's half-sister through that, my dad figured out that on Grandpa.

Rosa sight, he had six siblings.

Unfortunately, they were most of them passed away.

Actually, several of them passed away right before we did this DNA testing.

So he didn't get to meet them but he did get in touch with with his sister Linda.

Which has been amazing.

She just really didn't bat an eye and was super welcoming to me and my dad in the coolest thing.

She said, was, I said, okay, so I guess I'm your half nice and she said, I don't work in hats.

You're my niece.

I was like, okay, that's good to hear ya.

So word gets out through my dad's brothers and sisters that.

Hey, lucky, as lucky as listed on five birth certificates for five of the kids so far.

He's not Frank's dad.

Dad.

So they all are like, okay well we want to see if he's our dad, so they all start testing and it kind of was a domino.

So the first one to test was my uncle Danny and we feel like it's Maury Povich.

Sometimes there we go.

You are not the father.

Lucky was not his father.

He actually was born in Brooklyn and of to one of two brothers in Brooklyn that we've narrowed it down to next.

Two tests, was my Uncle Steve's daughter?

My uncle, Steve The way about 12 years ago and his daughter though wanted to know.

Okay, well who was my grandfather so she tested and figured out Steve's.

Dad was a man from Florida who lived in Brooklyn for a Time.

Steve's was by far the hardest to figure out.

I figured some of these cases I've looked and you can just tell by a couple trees like you're from this family and this family and you just go down the line and oh, there they are.

Steve's took me a couple months and stacks of paper. / to figure out but figured him out next, my aunt's Marianne hurt.

My grandma, Mary's very first daughter, very first child in New York.

She was like, I know, I always thought Armando who was?

I grew up with as my father.

I always thought that he wasn't my father.

I look different than my sisters so she tested and she was correct.

Armando was not her.

Dad figured out her dad was, this is again when Grandma Mary was 16, her dad was a man.

Lived a couple blocks away from where Grandma Mary lived with her parents and so she got pregnant at 16 again with all of these different men, all these different fathers.

We don't know if she knew who exactly the fathers were, if they could have been Lucky's or they could have been Armando's or if she was just trying to know, it wasn't.

As she was trying to pin it on somebody, right?

We don't know we, you know, we looking back, we we don't know what her choices were what she knew or what what was going on.

Back in the 1950s and 60s birth control for women was not what it is today.

Also, women probably weren't as aware of, you know, at what time do you get pregnant?

How long until you figure out you're pregnant and so she may truly have not have known, you know?

Which one was the dad, you know.

So so don't want to paint her with the worst brush than it already is.

So Marian does figures out her test.

We did figure out, of course, my Aunt.

Jeanette was already on Ancestry.

And the daughter of my Aunt Lynn, my Aunt Lynn passed away years ago, but her daughter was was on Ancestry and we figured out the Armando actually was yay.

Finally was the father of Glen and Jeanette.

So we're like wow one at least or at least two kids have the actual correct dad on the birth certificate to of the eight.

So we're like progress it was just kind of a lot of sorting out of whose dad is who's the tree that I have for gravel Mary.

I literally a named The Twisted tree because it's such a mess.

So the last test was Robert, the youngest kid.

And again his dad is a man that was from North Carolina living in East Texas.

At the time, the Grandma Mary was so, you know, the only person will never know, obviously is my Aunt Marion Gail that died in childhood, so we will leave her as Lucky's since that's what owner puts on her birth certificate, and just kind of leave it at that in.

Just be at peace.

Not knowing that one.

So all the aunts and uncles that up to today.

They at least have some answers.

They know what they went through.

They know, basically who their fathers are again there.

You know, sometimes when it comes down to two brothers and none of them had children.

It's you can't really ever tell.

But, you know, they have some closure, they have some answers.

They're all on their own level or journey of processing,

right?

Because we're looking at six out of eight.

Really and bees.

I mean they're they're all npes.

So yes, 6 out of 8 MP.

He's I think it's helped them to get a fuller picture of where they came from.

Has your dad really had an opportunity to connect like deeply with his sisters that were

found.

Yeah, he did.

He did, I feel like my dad was the luckiest one out of all of the siblings in that, he As got to meet family on both sides.

So my Aunt Linda from I crumpled Ross, she invited my dad but North and not not too far from where my aunt's Marianne and Jeanette live and Linda said, we want you to come up.

I want you to meet my kids, want you to meet you know I'm your sister want to beat my brother.

And my dad was like absolutely so my dad and my stepmom went and made a nice long trip of going up to meet Linda.

Meet Jeanette, meet Mary Ann.

An and it was a fantastic trip.

We actually have a group message with with my Aunt Jeanette and my aunt Marion and my cousins on that side and my dad.

And so we just, you know, send each other funny stuff, pictures of the kids, just kind of like figuring out a life with them.

Now, you know, like here, guess what?

I have this many kids, this is what I do.

This is what I do for work, you know?

And so we're just, you know, kind of day-to-day life funny, you know, send them.

Team.

Yeah, just kind of whatever we're up to.

So, it's technology for sure, has changed.

What used to do?

People would send a letter and say, hey, I, you know, your long-lost family member.

Now we have like a Facebook group message, Ryan going.

So he can just kind of contact any time

you mentioned that when you started this Quest, you wanted to learn more about your genetic history and you since learned that who you thought was your biological grandfather.

Other was not, what have you learned.

Have you gotten any answers to any of those questions about, you know, where your eyes come from, or any of those kinds of

things?

Well, sort of looking, okay?

So I had one picture of my grandmother that I had ever seen before this and it was it was actually was old.

It was folded in half and there was there.

So there was a line near her face.

So it was kind of really hard to get any detail there but she was kind of doing this.

I die.

Like oh great judgy side-eye, that's me.

So my dad had said I've seen that look on you I was like great, the this is where I get the you know the Hem perturbed look or whatever.

So I could kind of see myself there and my grandpa Ross.

I've seen a couple pictures now just in and my mom comes into play to.

So I have light hair, my grandpa Ross is really dark hair.

I don't see tons of family resemblance there but my dad is dark hair and and and is a little Bit shorter.

It definitely lines up with, with his dad.

The weird thing, you know, only seen one picture of your grandmother ever and looking to see like do I look like her?

I do, you know looking at that one young picture that was folded.

I was like I can kind of see it.

Sadly weirdly the picture of her obituary when she was an old lady.

I was like that is exactly what I'm going to look like as an Old Woman Who how she her forehead her eyes her cheekbones.

I was fortunate enough.

F2, kind of after all the dust settled and you know, getting in touch with biological people.

I was like what happened to Grandma after, after she left, the girls after she left the boys.

Again, going back to her social security.

I was like, there's a lot of names here that I still don't.

Recognize her married names.

So, figured out that after she left the boys, she married three more men.

We don't think any children came out of those relationships, but week with Grandma, Mary can never be too sure.

One cool thing was looking at her obituary of course, you see people's names that, you know, survived by.

And I reached out to the family of one of the men that she married and I was like, hey, my grandma was married to your grandfather when she died.

And what do you what do you remember about her?

Well, so I got in touch with a girl named Sarah.

She's of course, not biologically related to me, but she was basically grandmothered by my grandmother that I never knew.

So, I explained the story to Sarah and she was just floored and she was like, I never knew that she had kids.

She never talked about having kids.

I was like, well, she had eight and she said, yeah, no, we didn't know that.

She never said anything about having kids.

And Sarah said, granted, I Was Young when she was a grandmother step-grandmother to me.

But he said, you know, her history of drinking and leaving people.

She said, I've never seen her have a drink.

She was a very good and motherly.

She said she would play with us and make sandwiches and just basically be a grandmother, which was kind of weird to hear.

Just because I'm like, wow, you've left all of these kids, you've never known me as a granddaughter, but your grandmother during kids that weren't even your own, so it was kind of Bittersweet that I was glad to see that she at some point in her life, settle down.

And and could maybe take on that motherly or grandmotherly role, but it was So weird that it was like but you didn't do that for me.

You didn't do that from my cousin's, you know like you weren't a grandmother to us.

It was there's a little juxtaposition kind of, you know thought like what why them and not us, you know.

But again I have to take a step back.

I don't know what her head space was.

I don't know what, you know again.

Like I'm glad that it sounds like it's some point she settled down, maybe got her life on track and maybe took some responsibility for the people around her.

So, Sarah offered me up.

She said, hey, I have pictures of her but I'm, I'm afraid to send them to you.

I don't want your feelings to be hurt.

She said, I have pictures of me, and I her brother's just cuddled up next to my grandma.

And I said, no, you send them.

It's not, you know, it doesn't hurt my feelings.

It's kind of interesting to see her in that light, you know, because I haven't really thought of her that way, and I haven't seen her that way, so she sent pictures to me.

And again, with our Facebook Messenger I said, hey Dad, hey Aunt, Hey, you know.

Hey uncle's widget, does anybody want to see these pictures?

You know what I found was after Co because they were curious to what did she do after she left us all.

Like will it hurt y'all to see see her mother and grandmother?

And, you know, whatever kids and they were like, no, we want to see?

And they they were curious and like, okay, well, that's what she looked like as she was older, you know?

Because I'm sure their memories were very foggy being that they were so young when she left.

And of course, she looked at Lot different.

They were glad to have them but also still they were like yeah, that she wasn't that to my kids.

So you know, and she wasn't really a mother to me.

So it was kind of a weird closure.

You mentioned that one of your aunt's talk to your Grandma, Mary on her deathbed.

How did they connect?

Okay, so that's what again.

So Twisted story weird scenarios.

So Grandma left with with lucky but over the years Net and Marianne did say that she would keep in touch her grandma.

Mary's parents were still in New York, she did not often.

I know that they physically saw her once twice, maybe after she left, and that's how and they knew that they she told them, you have brothers in Texas, but she was never a constant presence in their life.

Whenever she showed up, it was very jarring.

It, why are you here?

I haven't seen you in her, you know, her.

Over many years, it was obviously very strained and so they did have contact with her.

I guess they had phone numbers for her, but she never really would share about the brothers.

She just, this is my life down here.

She would somewhat keep in touch with them but the boys, my dad for sure, Robert for sure.

Steve and Danny were a little bit older but still like three when they left New York.

They don't remit their like we never paid Go see their sisters.

They didn't that wasn't something that they knew of my dad said at some point.

He was very little.

He said he saw a black and white picture with three little girls in it.

She said oh those are your sisters never said anything.

Again never mentioned them, never talked about them, he kind of wrote it off.

As again with quite a traumatic childhood wrote it off as mom's drunken weird.

I don't even know what this picture is about.

He was very little, he said, honestly, It wasn't like a thing like, oh, I have these three sisters.

I need to look for it.

They weren't a part of the boy's life.

She didn't discuss, you know your sisters, you know.

So they were very much kept separate,

And of course they were then taken by CPS, so, yes, she couldn't drop in on them.

Right.

How has this experience?

Transformed your relationship with your father.

Big time I can See, that's really kind of my big takeaway from the whole thing is, I can see where God was at work from girl, marries first pregnancy till today, just I can see where a mess of situations circumstances that, you know, bad circumstance, after bad circumstance, bad decision, after bad decision.

Things just that mount up that seem like, wow, this is awful, I see.

See how God can take that turn it on its head and redeem it and turned it into something good looking at that I'm like, wow, I went through quite a period of my life, where I was in and out of touch with my dad and very strained.

And I had a lot of unforgiveness, just for my personal reasons, nothing, nearly nothing nothing, abusive, nothing traumatic, anything like that, but my own just, you know, personal grievances, different things that I had held onto over the And seeing this seeing got it work through all this, it was like, wow, Kim, you have been holding on to a grudge, you know, here and you have to take a step back and, you know, give Grace to people.

So I guess, just just learning to forgive my grandma learning to forgive my dad asking for forgiveness.

For myself, it's open up the door to a lot of forgiveness between me and my dad, we don't talk.

Every single day or anything like that, but we do, you know, keep in touch much more than we used to sharing about, you know, about my kids, and what they're up to and just just being in touch with him now isn't strained anymore.

You know, you don't make up for, you know many, many years of history of being strained and you know overnight but it just seems more natural and easier whenever you kind of let go of some of the, some of the Hertz and Move forward and forgive ya.

So it's definitely been super, super productive and healing?

Yeah, I've just seen God at work and seen seen relationships, get mended and things, kind of come full circle from listening to a podcast about an mpeg-2 figuring out my own dad's in PE story and ending up on a podcast.

It's kind of goes back to back to these podcasts.

I have to ask, what advice would you give someone like your Grandma Mary who was holding on to some level of Secrets from her

children?

Through this process and also just through other people that I've talked to, you know, in Pease, family secrets this that and the other I think letting go of the secret.

The shame is very freeing.

I can't speak for Grandma.

Mary, obviously, she never really let go of her secret.

But I would, I would say If you are hiding something like this, like if, if you finally just say, okay, I'll you know, I'll share now, I think they might be surprised that people are more accepting than you'd think.

People probably hide some of these secrets or bad decisions because they're afraid because they're ashamed, but I think getting that weight off your chest getting there, getting that heaviness off of you, just can really open up.

It can really do wonders for for people to let go.

Of the hiding.

Yeah, that's great.

And I've never asked this question this way, but because this show is about npes adoptees.

Donor can see people and their families.

What advice would you give for the child of an NP e?

Well, as I know a lot of actual children from from in Pease, obviously, with my dad being an inbuilt in PE, I would just say It's your story to, you know, a lot of people's parents passed before this technology became available in in.

But you, you being child of an MP, you still carry part of that DNA.

You still have a history there it is.

It is.

Okay for you to know your story, it is okay to know your family.

It is okay to do the legwork and find out who your grandparents were obviously with pecked to, you know, every parent situations different, I completely understand, you know, luckily my father was, I knew he wanted to know these things and he would be on board.

If you have a different situation where the parent is not interested.

You know that that obviously is is something I haven't dealt with and I don't know that I can speak to that.

I thought would be something to discuss with your in PE parent, but, you know, if they are are on board, I say go for it quite a journey to take with your parent who Doesn't know.

Okay, dad let me help you figure this out.

Mmm.

Yeah, can thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and all of the amazing work that you did to help your father and his siblings, learn their truth.

I hope things continue to go positively with your dad and all of your newfound family members.

Thanks for having this platform in hosting those of us, that, that are in this boat.

And in this, Leti, thanks again to Kim for sharing her story.

If you have a DNA surprise story that you'd like to share, please email, DNA surprises at gmail.com.

And if you haven't yet, please rate, review And subscribe to the podcast on Apple podcasts and Spotify.

Until next time.

Leti, thanks again to Kim for sharing her story.