Jamie L’s DNA Surprise

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

Speaker 1

So my mom watches our kids when my husband and I both work.

So I had sent her an e-mail because she knew that I was trying to figure this out.

My mom even did the DNA test and I had sent her an e-mail and I said you're never going to believe this.

I said, either my dad is adopted, either he was switched at birth or he's not my dad.

I said, isn't that crazy?

And I sent her that e-mail from work.

And of course she didn't respond.

So Ben, I went to go pick up my kids after work and I walked into the house and I said, hey, did you see my e-mail?

And she goes, I did.

And I said, what did you think about that?

And she goes, I think that's crazy.

I said, really?

You think that's crazy?

I said, what I think is crazy is I've been on a wild goose chase for eight weeks trying to solve this puzzle for this girl.

And you've always known.

That's what's crazy.

Speaker 2

Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that explores the life altering world of unexpected DNA discoveries.

I'm your host, Alexis Oursalt.

This show centers the stories of people who've experienced NP, ES or non paternal events.

In other words, people who've learned that their biological father isn't who they thought he was.

We'll also hear from adoptees, donor conceived people, and the families navigating these discoveries.

Get ready to follow the incredible journeys that begin with a simple DNA test.

This is DNA surprises.

DNA surprises often begin with a search for answers.

But what happens when you find them and realize the answers don't give you control over what happens next?

Jamie wasn't searching for herself when she uncovered her DNA surprise.

She was trying to help an adoptee identify her biological family when the clues began pointing somewhere she never expected towards her own parentage.

In this week's episode, Jamie shares how solving someone else's mystery revealed her own and the complicated reality of relationships shaped by decades old secrets.

Thank you for sharing your story, Jamie.

My name is Jamie, and I am currently 48 years old and I am from Wisconsin.

My DNA story starts with, you know, one of those Black Friday Deals my husband happened to mention, which I feel like I've heard so often on your your podcast.

My husband had mentioned that he wanted to do it because he knows that his grandmother had come from Scotland.

And I was like, oh, that's a pretty cool Christmas gift.

So Black Friday deal, I thought, I'll get one too, But I already know that I'm straight off the boat from Germany because almost everybody in Wisconsin is.

So we got the the packets at Christmas time.

My mom was at our house when we opened them because my kids are both little at the time.

And there was no surprises, nothing.

Did the test, sent them off and never thought again about it.

To be honest, the results came back.

I can't remember exactly when it was and I remember getting an e-mail opening it up and it said that I was 50% Irish and English and I was like who knew?

I had no idea and literally didn't think anything about it because my husband, his results were inconclusive because he needed to redo the test.

So I thought well once once his comes in, then maybe I'll kind of look at it some more.

I had no idea about the individual matches, which I've also learned that I'm not the only person as through your podcast, but I had no clue that that was even a thing.

I thought it was just where you come from.

Fast forward, it was April, we were gone on spring break and I had gotten an e-mail from Ancestry from a girl who was adopted and was looking for her parents and I matched as a first cousin and I thought, is this legit?

Is this real?

So I immediately went on to download the Ancestry app and sure enough, I could see that it was there.

The e-mail was there.

I still had no idea about the individual matches.

So my mom was with us on vacation.

And so I had read the e-mail to my mom and my mom just said, that's crazy.

Wow.

She had no idea.

So I said to the girl, you know, send me whatever information you can.

I would be happy to help you.

Let's solve this mystery.

So she had sent me the non descriptive birth information, whatever they're given from the hospital or from the adoption agency.

Turns out she was born in Iowa, so made sense because I am from Wisconsin.

I had looked at the information.

I said, you know, I'm on vacation, I'll take a look at it when I get back.

Fast forward to about Memorial Day weekend.

She had reached out again and I said, oh, I'm really sorry, I'd just forgotten about it.

I'll start taking a look.

What are your initial thoughts 'cause you're getting first cousin?

So were you instantly like does my did you have any aunts or uncles or anyone where you were going?

Did they have a child and not know?

Or where did your mind start going at first?

Right, that's a great question.

I had no idea whether it was on my mom's or my dad's side 'cause I still didn't know about the individual matches.

And even at that point, once I did figure it out, I still didn't understand the whole set of organs type of thing and and how to understand it.

I mean, talk about a crash course in how to read DNA coding once you start figuring these pieces out.

So we were sitting there after she had given me the non identifying information and we were trying to figure out, you know, the this girl's mother had like, I don't know, five siblings and the dad had five siblings and the mom had six siblings.

So none of it really made sense.

Couldn't quite figure it out.

So I wasn't sure whether it was through the mom or the dad.

I didn't know.

My mom has 2 old, much older siblings and then she has two siblings close to her age.

And so we thought, well, 'cause my dad was the only boy in his family.

He has four sisters.

He had a brother who passed away when he was 18.

He drowned in a tragic accident.

But my dad was 9 when that had happened.

So unless my dad was her dad or my one of my aunts had given up a baby for adoption, it likely wasn't through my dad.

It was through my mom, so it was leading me down that course that it was probably one of my mom's brothers started, you know, doing some digging and investigating.

And I remember her sending me a picture of herself.

I said, well, can you send me a picture?

And when she sent me the picture, it took my breath away.

I was like, Oh my gosh, she, she looks like me.

We look a lot alike when I look like my siblings as well, but we really looked a lot alike.

And I think she felt the same way because you know, she's adopted.

It's the first time she'd ever seen somebody she really look like.

But I still couldn't figure out how, right?

Memorial Day, she contacted me, really started digging in and it took me 3 days after I educated myself and I figured out who her mom was, did a lot of sleuthing and a lot of digging.

And once I figured out who her mom was, I realized that I'm not related to her mom.

So I knew that the connection was through her dad.

Well, I couldn't I, I couldn't figure it out.

It just didn't make sense to me.

I had actually reached out to a woman who helps adoptees for free try to find their birth parents because I had found one of her blogs and sent her a message and I never heard back.

I just kept educating myself and just kept digging, kept digging and digging.

She's four years older than me, so she's about the the same age as my brother.

So I have an older brother.

And so it was growing up, it was my older brother and I, and then my mom got remarried and had my much younger brother and sister.

I have 1/2 brother and a half sister who are 13 and 1414 years younger than me.

So this woman who helps the adoptees, it's about 1:00 in the morning here in Wisconsin.

And I, I mean, I literally don't sleep.

I just work on this constantly because I want to figure it out.

And I see that she's online and I sent her a message and she instantly responds to me.

And I said I've tried to get a hold of you.

And she said, oh, I really am sorry, blah blah blah.

And she said sent me your information and I will take a look.

So I, I sent her everything that I had, all the trees that I had built.

You know what I've got post it notes and pieces of paper.

They're everywhere.

I've built so many trees and I'm trying to figure it out.

And I'm actually really close to where I think we're intersecting on all of these trees 'cause, you know, we come from a big Irish Catholic family where there's 15 kids and the oldest one passes away and then the youngest one has the same name as the oldest one.

And it's it's fun trying to put all these trees together.

So she says she will take a look.

So I wake up the next morning and I've got an e-mail from her and she messaged me and she said see if you could get your brother to take the test.

And I said, yeah, I'm sure my younger brother will take it.

She said no, no, no, not have you see if your older brother will take it.

So she instantly knew looking at the information.

But how do you tell somebody that, right?

So she's trying to steer me in that direction.

And I said, my older brother won't won't take the test.

I know he won't.

And she said, well, how about one of your aunts?

And I said, oh, yeah, one of my aunts will take it.

One of my dad's sisters.

I know they will.

I'll ask my aunt.

I know she will.

So I call it one of my aunts.

And I said, hey, Aunt Barb, will you take adna test if I send it to you?

I said, I've trying to solve this puzzle for this girl, and she kind of knew about it because I told her, because I asked her.

I said, do you know anything about any of your sisters maybe putting a baby up for adoption?

I mean, I was covering every angle I could.

She was no, no, no, she said, but I never thought I needed to take adna test because my other sister already did.

And I said, well, what do you mean?

What?

Which sister?

And she said, well, Lindy took the test and I said, well, do you know which DNA site she took the test with?

And she said, I think she took it from Ancestry.

She goes, let me, let me take a look and I'll send you the results.

So she did.

She took a screenshot of it and sent it to me.

And sure enough, it was Ancestry.

And I didn't match to her.

And instantly my head went to, Oh my gosh, my dad was switched at birth.

I still couldn't believe that my dad wasn't my dad.

Like this doesn't make sense 'cause you never think your parents are gonna lie to you.

Right, so you instantly were like finding the excuses that many of us do, right would find out right.

So your your dad was the one.

That's that's where the chain kind of broke.

Yeah, So once I came to the realization that he wasn't my dad, it it's just really all made sense.

There was I, I, I never in my life ever doubted it.

But I probably subconsciously, I've always wondered in a way, because I've always said how can I be exactly like my mom and nothing like my dad?

I never had a relationship with my dad.

He was never around.

He wasn't a good father.

I used to beg for him to want to be a dad.

And as a kid, you shouldn't have to beg for your dad to want them to be a dad, right?

So it's probably one of the blessings in disguise is that we didn't have a close relationship in that regard, but we just were very, very different people.

And I can remember saying, how does the same blood run through our veins?

And so it makes sense that it doesn't.

And I don't mean to laugh because it's not funny, but it just makes sense.

Was it kind of like an instant, This makes sense.

And did you have any like sadness or disappointment or anything?

Or was it more like, oh I I never realized that this was the situation, but in a way it validated maybe just your feelings growing up.

I think it was a little bit of both.

I can remember I spent more time with my dad's girlfriend that he had for a long time growing up.

We had probably had a closer relationship.

We had a a big argument when I went to college and that was the last time that I had talked to him was when I was 18.

And it, it didn't end well.

And I was like, you know, OK, that's your choice.

And he passed away in 2010.

When he passed away, I had to, you know, deal with all of his affairs of cleaning all of that up and everything like that.

You know, I mean, he was still my father, but it just, it was unfortunate, but it was kind of in a sense, it was kind of a relief because I always had that wondering of Willie ever come around, right?

Like Willie ever realize, you know, hey, I missed out on all of these years, right?

And and it's unfortunate because he never met my husband.

He never met my son, but those were his choices.

Yeah.

So definitely a lot of a lot of probably conflicting feelings coming up.

Then who's the first person you tell after you figure this out?

Wow, what did she say to that?

So, and this is this is where I struggle with a lot of, with a lot of like the emotions because everybody's situation is different, right?

I am who I am because of my mom, right?

I say my mom was put on this earth to be a mom.

And my mom is, you know, my, the best person in my life.

She, she made a choice that she did right, wrong or indifferent.

To be honest, I don't think that she 100% ever knew.

And I, I say that on one side of my mouth, and then I think another thing on the other side occasionally, because when I look at my dad, I don't look anything like him.

But when I know who my biological father is, it's obvious that he's my dad.

But without having that confirmation, how do you really ever know, right?

And so I can understand that piece of it, but I still struggle a little bit because it's like, mom, you knew, why didn't you just tell me?

Especially after we had that huge argument and you knew there was no going back with our relationship.

And I think she probably always had that hope as well that he would maybe come around and be a dad.

Plus, I have an older brother, right?

So not wanting to tarnish the relationship that he has with his dad, our dad, right.

So it's, it's so difficult.

There's so many thoughts that go through my mind.

The other complicated piece in this is that my biological father has been married.

So I'm 48 and he's been married I think for 50, fiveish years.

So I am the product of an affair.

He has two children and I am right in the middle of the two of them.

So that certainly makes things.

Complicated.

Did your mom give you more information in the moment when you basically called her out and said, I know, I know, you know?

So what did what did she say?

Did she apologize?

Like what was the conversation?

And when I said it's crazy and she said yeah.

And I said mom, just just tell me.

I, if you don't tell me who it is, I'm going to figure it out.

I'm so close and I'm right there.

I, I know I'm right there.

And then I told her a name.

I said, does this name ring a bell?

And she said yes.

And I said, just tell me who it is.

And she goes, you know who it is?

It's somebody who has been in your life.

So my biological father's brother has been in my life throughout my life.

He is that girl's dad, so.

So this girl is not your sister, she is your cousin.

Right, so both of our dads are brothers and they each have a daughter that they never knew existed.

OK, so your biological father didn't know about you?

No.

Well, OK, I don't know.

Yeah, right.

Like, you can do the math.

He's seen me growing up because my dad, my my dad and him and then my uncle, they all played on the same softball team together growing up.

That was a big thing that they did here in the summers.

So I mean, we've been around when my dad passed away back in 2010.

I had the memorial service for him like a celebration of life.

He came, he was there because my mom told me.

And I said, really?

And I pulled out the book because I still have the book.

And sure enough, there's his signature in the book.

And I said, man, I don't remember talking to him at all.

And she goes, you didn't.

She goes he, he never came over and talked to you.

And I was like, probably for a reason.

So yeah, I know.

So like, did he know?

Did he not know?

How do you feel about all of this information as you're learning all of this from your mom?

I mean, in a sense I was relieved because it made sense that my dad wasn't my dad, but I was also a little bit hopeful, thinking maybe I have a second chance, right?

But it also made sense to a lot of other things in my life because I've worn glasses my entire life.

I have terrible eyes and I'm where does that ever come from?

Well, now I know I had back surgery when I was 23 and I've had it, I've had it twice.

Where does that come from?

Well, I know where that comes from.

Those are just a couple of things like my husband's profession and their profession.

Like there is a lot of is it synchronicities right?

There are so many that exist.

It's weird how many of those types of things exist in this situation that I can't even make it up.

What do you do next?

Like you have this conversation with your mom.

She gives you more information.

Obviously you put a lot more pieces together.

Are you interested in connecting with him?

Yep, I of course, you know, figured it out, didn't sleep for like 3 days and wasn't quite sure what to do.

What should I do?

Right.

So I've discovered everything about my siblings.

I know where they, I know where they work, I know where they live.

I know how many nieces and nephews that I have.

You know you, you can figure out anything and everything on the Internet, right?

So I reached out to my father and left him a message and he called me back.

And I said to him that I had done this DNA test and it has shown that you are my father.

And he said, when is your birthday?

And then I told him.

And he goes, yeah, I believe you.

Like that?

Yeah, pretty much.

So that's why I say, did he know?

Like, you know, he's not dumb, you know, you can do the math and he's seen me over time.

So you know, like you have that suspicion.

You know you don't.

And I said, look, I don't want to ruin your life.

I don't want to cause any problems.

I know you've been married a long time.

The last thing I want is to ruin anything for you.

But if it was me, I would want to know.

And so the ball is in your court.

Of course, I would love to meet you and whatever you're willing to be able to do.

And he was, you know, I've been married all these years and my wife would never allow it and blah, blah, blah.

And I said, yeah, like, I understand that.

And he said, well, give me some time and I'll be in touch.

And you have to, we have to remember too, there's also this other girl, right, who has also found her dad, which is his brother.

And she has contacted them.

And now her situation's different because he was not married.

So this was before he was married and that she started developing a relationship with them.

So that was kind of the other piece that I had shared was, you know, you're not the only one dealing with this.

I said your brother is also in the same situation, ish.

He was kind of taken back by that.

And I said this, this is more common than you think.

It doesn't make it OK, but it's more common than you think.

So the other thing is to, and this was nine years ago.

I said this was a long time ago, right?

You're a different person today than you were back then.

The decisions that you made were different back then than they are today.

You know, like it is what it is.

You, you can't change the past.

And I didn't do anything wrong.

I'm a result of actions that were that happened, right?

So I'm innocent in all of this.

But the ball is in your court of what you want to do.

We did eventually meet.

The first time we met, we were together maybe two or three hours and just talked for a long time.

It started out with him saying there's no way I can have you in my life.

My wife will never accept it.

I just don't know how.

And it ended with you're the daughter I've never had.

I want you in my life.

My wife is going to have to figure it out.

I don't care if she doesn't.

I'm never going to let you go like it was a complete 180 from where we started.

And how are you feeling about that?

I was hopeful, but that's where it ended and I had told them the three things that I've always said is that I won't lie and I will never ask somebody to lie for me and I will not carry on a secret relationship.

I won't do any of those three.

And I did carry on a secret relationship with him for I think it was 8 months.

And that was really, really difficult.

And I finally said I can't do this anymore.

I said it's not fair to your wife.

I said, you know, you did this a long time ago, it's not fair now.

I said it's not fair for me, it's not fair for you.

None of this is healthy.

He met my husband, he met my kids.

You know, my kids didn't know who he was.

My kids didn't find out any of this until probably 3 or 4 years ago because I never knew where it was going to go and talk about trying for them to try to figure out what all of this means.

But it's never progressed beyond beyond any of that because his wife forbids it.

And I understand it.

I don't like it, but I understand it, you know, I mean, she's human.

Every time she sees me, it's a reminder, right, Of a probably a tough time in their marriage.

I I get that I have empathy for her, you know?

But yeah, it's unfortunate because none of us are getting any younger.

So right.

You mentioned that your kids didn't know for up until a few years ago, four or five years ago, what was their reaction to learning all of this and and that you'd kind of been holding it.

I mean, that's, that's all I want to carry.

So the other girl her she met her dad and which is then her stepmom and they have two kids.

So which are my first cousins?

Also one of my first cousins, his ex-wife has become one of my closest, closest friends.

Super, super close.

We actually went to kindergarten together just crazy.

And we have forged a really strong bond and relationship.

So we're close.

And so then it's her kids are like my cousins.

And so my kids know they're related to them, but they aren't quite sure how they know it's through their dad, but they don't know that it's not through my dad that died.

It's through this other dad, you know, like it's through your dad or through my dad, but they just don't know, right?

So it's I'm not lying, they just don't know which one.

It's kind of like a little bit of lying through a mission.

But once they found out, they were kind of like, huh, they didn't really understand.

But I think now that they're old enough, you know, my kids are both in high school now.

They they get it and they understand.

Like I said earlier, too, a lot of this is about me protecting my mom.

That was my first reaction when all of this came out as I don't want my mom to look bad in any of this.

She made choices that weren't right either, you know, Was she in a terrible marriage?

Obviously it doesn't make it right that she made the choices she did.

But my first reaction was to protect her, and I still find myself doing that right.

What was your mom's reaction through all of this?

Like did you keep her updated or did she know that you are pursuing a relationship or that you forged a relationship with your cousins?

She does know.

Once in a while she'll ask and you know, I'll share bits and pieces with her, but there isn't a whole lot of progress on it 'cause I don't live in the same city as them anymore.

I live about 3 hours away.

But in the beginning I would share with her because there were mutual people that were involved, friends of friends.

It's a small town, but it's not a small town.

And you know, people know people and other angles and yeah, you know how that goes.

And they start to find out, 'cause I'm not a secret.

I didn't do anything wrong, but I'm also not out to to do any harm to anybody either.

So you are open about this.

I mean, I don't know if you're if you're singing it from the rooftops, but like you are open and he knows your, your biological father, he knows that you're open, but he just won't pursue any sort of relationship.

OK, there was an article in the newspaper back home where my father lives because I don't live in the same town as them.

There was a newspaper article about something similar to this where somebody found their sibling through ADNA test and it had showed up on my Facebook feed.

Obviously because of DNA, right?

Like the algorithm and, you know, all these people are posting and I said, well, that's great, but not every story has a happy ending, right?

So then of course, the woman who wrote the article reaches out to me.

And so I responded and I just said not every story has an happy ending.

And so she wanted to do an article about me.

And I was like, absolutely.

And my approach for the article was to give them direction to the Facebook group, Catherine St.

Clair's group.

So when I first found this out, there was less than 200 people in Catherine's group.

And I was one of like, the early people in there.

So the article that she put in the newspaper had me, Catherine and another gentleman, his name is Mark from Iowa.

The three of us were in the article, and it was on the front page of the paper of the Sunday edition.

And there's my picture.

And they were not happy.

And they were really, really disappointed.

And I said, look, this isn't about you.

None of this is about you.

If I wanted this to be about you, I would have outed you.

I said I would have given hints to who you are.

I would have said your name.

I said none of that was put in this article at all.

There was two other people in this article.

That was the purpose of the article was to give people who are in this situation that don't have a happy ending and outlet to find therapy for people to support them.

And for people who don't know, I think many people do, but if they don't the the Facebook group is called NPE Friends.

Yes.

OK.

So you didn't, you didn't out them, but you did tell your story and it was in the local paper and obviously probably hit close to home.

But really, there was no risk of them being found out per SE.

Nope, not at all.

OK so to this day I so I have two siblings I don't have a relationship with one I've never talked to that one.

The other one I do have a relationship with but the mother doesn't know has to be in secret from the mother.

Is that hard for you to keep the?

Because I know that you kind of named your 3 rules right and.

But I don't I don't ever see her so like that.

That's their.

Choice.

It's on their side.

You're not hiding it from anyone in your life.

And he has not kept me a secret either.

So he has introduced me as his sister.

And I was like, whoa, OK, all right.

Were they pretty accepting of, you know, 'cause sometimes kids have a hard time realizing things about their parents?

Were they pretty accepting?

Was it a difficult road to acceptance with them?

Yeah, so when my dad and I first forged this secret relationship, I think he was kind of always trying to keep me at Bay, not to reach out to the siblings.

I think that was kind of his, his not, I don't want to say his goal, but I think that was it because he knew.

I wanted them to know.

They said they had a right to know.

We are all adults.

And he kept saying he was going to tell him, He was going to tell him, and he never would.

And so I finally said they have a right to know.

If you're not going to tell him, then I am because if this was me, I would be, I would be furious with my parents if I had a sibling out there and they didn't tell me.

Like that is not their secret to keep.

And I'm like, they're half the same as me, right?

They share half the DNA as me.

Like I would want to know.

And maybe they don't want to know.

Maybe they do.

I don't know, but they have a right to know.

I told them.

I said if you don't tell them I am.

And I said, and if you don't tell them, within two weeks, I'm telling them.

And he didn't.

And so I sent him both an e-mail and they were ecstatic.

They couldn't believe it.

They couldn't wait to meet me.

They don't care what their parents have to say.

We want you in our life.

We're so excited.

But we're going to have a conversation with our parents.

And then that was it.

And you know, I think it just took time to kind of work through some of some of the pieces and whatever.

And then eventually the one kind of came around and who is the one that I have a relationship with.

But it took a while, it took a couple of years.

You know, you just have to be patient.

And certainly the article in and the newspaper didn't help.

But like I said, it wasn't about them.

And I can't.

I said if I could put this in every newspaper across the country, I would.

Because this happens, you know, anywhere between 7 and 10% of the time when people take these tests.

And people don't have a place to turn and they don't know where to go to realize they're not alone.

And I said, 'cause trust me, I was there, right?

So we've built that relationship that's.

Good, you know, and I think that is a testament to sometimes it just takes a while, but people do sometimes come around and you have to let them process on their own time.

Right, right.

Where are things for you today?

I mean, I have not heard from my biological father and I don't even know how long, but I text him every once in a while.

It's the same thing that I did with my dad.

Even though I never had a relationship with him, I still would always, you know, send him a birthday card and a Father's Day card because I would never regret doing it, but I would regret not doing it.

So it's kind of the same thing.

I send him a text message on his birthday and if he doesn't respond, he doesn't respond.

And if he tells me not to, I won't.

But he has never told me not to.

I don't get a response.

But he's never told me not to.

Most recently, his sister passed away earlier this year and I've never met her.

One of her daughters had reached out and invited me to the celebration of life.

And I responded back and said, you know, I really appreciate the invitation.

It was very sweet of you to invite me.

And I don't know if this was like a group invitation, but I said, I really don't think this is probably the best place.

You know, this is my biological father's sister and I, I, I don't want to cause any problems.

And she said, Nope, you should be there.

Your family, we want you there.

And I was like, Oh, I don't, I just don't know that that's the right place for me to, to show up.

And I was gone out of town anyway.

And I said, you know, I really do appreciate it.

But I said, I think maybe we should just meet on different terms.

And, you know, I'm really sorry to hear about your mom.

And I never did hear from my dad when I my father, when I had told him that I was sorry to hear that his sister passed away.

And then it would be then one of his nieces passed away just recently, like a month ago, tragically.

And I had sent a message to him and said, you know, life is really short.

I said your sister and now your niece and he responded to my text messages the first time I've heard from him in like 2 1/2 years.

And he wrote something because I said, I hope you guys are doing well and staying healthy.

And I said time's running out or something like that.

And he said, yes, we're doing fine.

Love you.

And I was like, really?

You're going to throw that in there?

I haven't heard from you in 2 1/2 years.

Like nice, but kind of like.

It's.

Do you know what I mean?

Versus the actions kind of, right, yeah.

But otherwise I never hear from him.

I hear from my one brother occasionally, like once in a while from him out of the blue.

I reach up to him probably more than he does.

I think that's more of a, a boy girl thing, texting kind of thing, you know, then my nieces and nephews are the same ages as my kids.

So they're all the same age.

And I know his kids don't know about the our situation, but my kids do.

So I just think, you know, they're all cousins, they're all the same.

They'd have so much fun together, but they they don't know.

And one day they will.

And I hope they won't be upset or disappointed that they didn't know.

But that's their decision and their choice.

So.

How would you say that you feel about all of it now?

Would you say that you're at peace with how things unfolded and you're OK with whatever outcome may come with your dad?

Or you know, how are you feeling today?

It's like the same time heals all wounds, right?

It's been 9 years and it gets better all the time.

There's, there's days that I don't think about it now.

I still think about it a lot.

There's times when I think about it a lot.

And you know, I, I binge listen to podcasts or you watch a movie and it's got an MPE story.

And then you, you know, slide down that that rabbit hole of thinking about it and putting yourself in that position of the what ifs and what isn't and things like that.

I did therapy for several years early on when my therapist had no idea what this was, you know, early on when this was all very new.

And that was was definitely helpful.

A lot of that was about, you know, not being able to try to control the things that you can't control.

I think it's I have to be at peace with with where it is.

And the unfortunate thing is I feel the situation will change once my parents are gone, that I will have a relationship with my siblings, which is unfortunate.

I mean, I will take that, but it's unfortunate that it has to be that because of how this all evolved, right?

That's what has to happen in order for anything to progress and move forward.

That was a long time ago.

What happened in transpired, and we're all very different people, and what happened then is different than today.

But I don't know.

I just think nobody cares.

Nobody cares.

Nobody cares what happened 48 years ago.

They really don't remember talking about the story when it first happened.

And it was.

And I'm sure you had the same experience.

People were like, what, You know, everybody wanted to know about the story.

I had only one person stop and say, how are you doing?

Are you OK?

Nobody really ever stops and asks how I'm feeling and how I'm doing.

And I've heard in only a couple of your episodes of different people mention that, that people stop and ask that.

And I think that's really important, right?

How, how are we doing as the ones who were really impacted?

Because it's trauma, you know, it really is.

I, I have to be accepting of what it is.

Do I like it?

Probably not.

But it is it's out of my control and it is what it is.

Yeah, it is what it is.

That's kind of ultimately what it comes down to.

Yeah, I say all the time it's their loss and I really do mean it because I'm a good person.

I don't want anything from them.

I don't need anything from them other than just to have a relationship with them.

I look at it as why view me as something negative or a threat instead of, you know, here's another person to love your children and your grandchildren as much as you do.

You know, I don't need to be on the Christmas card.

It's just, it's just another person to bring into the family to have more fun with the family instead of it being something negative.

And it's unfortunate that there's people that can't view it that way.

We're just different people.

What advice do you have for a parent who is keeping adna surprise from their child?

Yeah, I every time you ask this, I think about the same question and I hear different answers and I think, oh, that's a good one in my unique situation, right?

I think I understand why my mom didn't say anything because I don't think she 100% knew one way or the other without having that confirmation.

So I can understand not wanting to open up that Pandora's box if she didn't know, right?

But I think there are people who are in that situation that do know, right?

So I think if if you know, you have to be honest.

You have to be honest.

And especially in this day and age, you just can't hide.

You can't hide this.

That was one of the questions that my dad had asked.

He said, I've I've never done this test.

How did how did you figure this out?

I said, oh, no, you don't need to.

I said, you didn't do it.

Your kids didn't do it.

Your brothers and sisters didn't do it.

I said it was actually pretty distant and I figured it out.

But the more people that do it, the easier it'll get.

And what advice do you have for someone who just uncovered Adna surprise?

I think taking it one day at a time, you know, take some time to just stop, breathe, think about it, right?

There's a lot that comes at you very quick.

And with the age of the Internet, we have everything at our fingertips so quickly and we just want answers.

And I'm not going to pretend that I was any different than anybody else, right?

I think taking the time to truly just process it all is, is critical to making sure that you're making rash decisions moving forward.

Because once you do it, you can't go back.

Jamie, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today and sharing your story.

It's helpful to hear from someone who's, you know, almost 10 years out and had time to kind of process this and come to terms with sort of varying levels of acceptance and engagement, you know, from your family.

I do hope that, you know, in the future, maybe your biological father opens up more.

But whatever happens, I'm, I'm glad to know that you have a positive outlook on the whole situation.

So thank you.

Yes, and thank you for what you do.

It's so important for people to have a place to heal, whichever form this provides for them, so thank you for what you do.

Thanks again to Jamie for sharing her story.

If you have Adna Surprise that you'd like to share, please submit your story at dnasurprises.com and for early add free access to episodes, join me over on patreon@patreon.com/DNA Surprises.

Until next time, DNA Surprises is hosted, produced and edited by me, Alexis Oursalt.

It is mixed and mastered by Josh Oursalt of Siren Recording Studios.