Kim O’s DNA Surprise

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

Intro

And I think that's the frustrating part too, is just my mom knowing all of this stuff, right?

My mom approached me at my birth certificate, father's funeral and said the most bizarre thing to me, you know, and said she's first of all, never told me she loved me my whole life.

And she chooses this to be the time and walks up to me.

I mean, we're standing there.

It's like open casket still, everything's happening.

And she's like, who?

You know, Kimmy, I I know we don't get along very well, but I love you and you shouldn't have to be dealing with this.

And I was like, well, that's an odd thing to say you.

Speaker 2

Know like.

Speaker 1

And so I think for me, a lot of that just lies within the lies that my mom kept and watching me struggle with my abandonment issues with my birth certificate father.

Like I look at my own daughter and I would never want her to to struggle in life in any way, shape or form, you know, and my mom watched that my entire life.

You basically like we, we all know what abandonment issues lead to right leads to dating the wrong men.

You're chasing people you shouldn't be chasing, But it kind of just creates these crazy patterns.

And and I just wish she had like, watching me go through all of this, like took a step back and and think about herself in the moment, protecting herself, but protecting me as her child.

Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the world of unexpected DNA discoveries.

I'm your host, Alexis ourselves.

In July 2021, my life took a surprising turn when I found out that I'm an NPE, a person who has experienced a non paternal event.

In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he was.

Join me as we explore the stories of NP, ES, adoptees and donor conceived people and their families.

Get ready to unravel the astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test.

This is DNA surprises.

After three years of making this podcast and speaking to people who've experienced life altering DNA surprises, I've noticed several trends. 1 trend is that oftentimes the biological father is someone a guest knew from childhood.

Another trend is a tumultuous relationship with the mother.

In this week's episode, Kim shares her emotional journey after discovering a family secret through genealogical research.

She discusses the shock and clarity that came with this revelation, her strained relationship with her mother who kept the secret, and the dynamics with her siblings and other family members who knew the truth but were sworn to secrecy.

Kim also speaks candidly about her efforts to build a relationship with her biological father, who she knew, and how the presence of this secret created issues throughout her life.

Kim first told her story a few years ago on NPE Stories, hosted by Lily Wood.

Her episode is LinkedIn the Show notes.

Thank you Kim for sharing your story.

I Kim My age is 45 and I'm from Livingston, Mt.

Kim’s Story

I discovered my DNA story about four years ago now, I would say probably May of 2020, so just after lockdown.

And the reason I discovered it is just my love for genealogy and history.

And so I did a Ancestry DNA test like 2 years before that, but I didn't really do anything with it.

I didn't log into Ancestry or do anything with it really.

And so when lockdown happened, I decided that I would take it a step further and do some family research.

My grandmother on my birth certificate, father's side was adopted and I wanted to try to find the rest of her family.

And that's kind of how I ended up down this rabbit hole of my DNA not matching with anyone else with the same last name as me.

And I found that to be surprising.

Along the way, what was interesting to me, I told my mom that I was doing this because I, you know, wanted to find my grandmother's family.

And she did tell me then that she didn't think it was a good idea and kind of became standoffish with me.

And so I should have known at that time that there is something more to my DNA story, but I didn't think anything of it.

And then over time, I was getting messages from people.

I was connecting with these people, I didn't know their last names, they weren't familiar to me asking how we might be related or where that connection is.

And we went over both of our families genealogy and just could not figure it out.

And I did bring that up to my mom again and and she told me, you know, I wouldn't want to find out any secrets.

I said, I think I'm going to uncover a big secret here.

Like I think your dad had an affair and I was all into it.

I was like putting my investigator hat on and ready to dive in.

And over time, I did start connecting with a last name that was familiar to me from my hometown that was interesting to me.

And I reached out to a person I know with that last name on Facebook, his name Steven.

And I sent a message and I said, hey, I, I'm noticing.

I did a ancestry DNA test and I'm noticing that I'm matching with people who have the same last name as you.

And I said, do you think we're distant cousins or, or do you know how we might be related?

And at that point it was about 10 minutes later in my, I got, I received a text from my mom who said she needed to talk to me.

So he didn't write me back.

And so I ended up going for a walk.

It was during lockdown so I just needed to get outside anyway.

So I called my mom and she was, she started crying immediately and just said you're you're going to hate me.

Steven called me after you reached out to him and asked me if you weren't aware that he was your real father.

Oh wow.

Yeah, and I was just completely blown away.

I I think my initial reaction actually, I started laughing because I didn't know.

I mean, I mean, I, I think I started laughing for a few reasons, like I didn't really expect the news, but at the same time it, it checked a lot of boxes for me and it made everything make sense.

It sounds like this blindsided you.

You were like, I'm going to find out stuff about my mom.

I'm going to, you know, uncover other stuff, and then you find this out.

It sounds like hindsight is 2020 and things came into focus.

What came into focus for you?

I think what really brought it, what, what came into focus for me was the fact that I, I'm the youngest of six kids and we all supposedly had the same father and he didn't want anything to do with me growing up.

This was somebody that I struggled with.

I had abandonment issues over this person.

I went to therapy with those abandonment issues, just not understanding why my dad just really didn't take an interest in me after my parents got divorced.

And I think that was something that immediately I was like, OK, yeah, that made that makes sense to me, you know, and, and over time, you know, as I as I learned more, I found out that he knew he didn't know that I wasn't his biological daughter.

And so he he did put a lot of distance there with me.

And unfortunately, you know, as children, that impacts us greatly.

And we take it on into our adulthood, right?

I had some clarity around that, and I was able to forgive him entirely.

He'd already passed away by this point, but there was a sense of relief on that end, I guess you could say.

Yeah.

Was your mom apologetic or what was the conversation with her like?

The conversation with her mother

No, she was not.

I mean, she still has yet to apologize.

The conversation with her was really around her, how she was in an unhappy relationship and and basically placing blame on my birth certificate father.

I think she hit it all these years and wanted it to remain that way because of the shame, right, that she was feeling.

And ultimately I learned that my biological dad was someone she was in love with and he didn't love her back.

They had a brief affair and then she divorced, got divorced from my birth certificate father when I was 11 months old.

I think there was probably some conversation.

According to my bio dad, there was some conversation after the facts about moving their relationship forward and he just was not.

He didn't have the same feelings for her.

He did offer to help take care of me but she said no.

I think at that point in time, she just decided she was going to keep it a secret forever and ever and take it to the grave with her, you know, But at the same time, she didn't realize there were many people who knew.

So over time, you know, with having six siblings, I found out that my oldest three siblings all new, that's news as well.

How did you find that out?

I found it out by bringing my news to them.

Like my discovery, those three oldest siblings just came straightforward with me and said they always knew.

They definitely wanted to protect me and the best way they could.

I don't think they knew how they were all in high school and younger when this occurred.

And one of my brothers ultimately moved out and moved in with their their dad because they were upset with our mom about it.

And you know, I think that's something my mom doesn't realize is how much the secret impacted everyone and, and not just her, right.

And so overtime they just, they opened up about it to me.

My sister told me she found a letter that my mom had written, my bio dad laying it all out there and she confronted, I think she, my sister was 16 at the time and she confronted my mom and my mom swore her to secrecy.

And that's something you know, I brought up to my mom and my mom doesn't remember that or so she says, right?

I'm sure you've heard this interviewing.

The number of people you have is the mothers in the situation.

A lot of them can be narcissistic or you uncover the true narcissism that exists there.

And that's something that I've learned about my mom.

I always knew it to some extent, but once the secret was uncovered, it was just, it became more exhausting to have conversations with her about it because she made it all about her and she's the victim in this.

I don't think I'm ever going to get an apology and I don't know that I need one.

What do you do to get to that place of closure?

How to get to a place of closure

I started reading I I found this great book that was called I think it's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents.

It's a good book.

And I don't know if you've heard of that.

And it it just really helped me understand my mom being this complex character that she is.

My relationship is not great with my mom.

I'm just in a better place mentally where I'm I'm not questioning everyday.

Like when I first discovered it was constantly on my brain.

I feel like, and wanting to get to the bottom of it with her.

Like I was really like, we're going to talk about this, you know, and she just, she wasn't going to and she wasn't going to take ownership of her actions.

When you're learning about narcissistic parents overtime, like you realize like you're just not going to get that apology that you're hoping for.

So.

I just been able to cope with it that way.

And it's also just knowing that I'm not going to has helped me create better boundaries with her because I know what kind of person I am and I know what kind of person she is.

People always say this, right?

Like your mom's still your mom, you know, or like, wow, I can't imagine what she went through back then.

You know, I get that a lot from people, which is interesting.

In those days, you know, divorce wasn't a thing or you know, it.

It's just honestly helped me create boundaries with her that I needed to probably create long before I had this discovery.

Even growing up, she was not nice to me.

And like we talked about in the beginning here, finding this out just, you know, checking some boxes for me, that was one of them.

My mom would say incredibly mean things to me, like how I wasn't wanted or, you know, just very weird jealousy things with me my entire life and never happy for me, right?

Like it's almost like she didn't want to see me succeed in life.

So once you find out something like this, and if you're going through struggles with your mom like that, you know, finding out a discovery like this can be pretty eye opening to why they treated you so, so poorly growing up.

What does your relationship look like with your mom?

How to deal with your mom

Now you've talked about boundaries.

Do you keep her like arm's length?

Do you talk to her often?

What does your relationship look like?

Yeah, it's it's then a bit difficult just because my stepdad had a stroke last year and, and ultimately, you know, I ended up being someone who is taking care of him and getting him set up in Hospice and that sort of thing.

So, you know, I had to talk to my mom quite a bit obviously during all of that.

And it wasn't easy because she just is not an easy person.

That means she's not an even feel like she's she's either at a zero or she's at a 85 and especially under something so stressful like that.

And so I think for me, it's just she wants a reaction.

A lot of the time from any of her texts, she feels like I haven't reached out and well, you know, I'll get a mean text.

Well, I just don't text back, right.

I don't play into whatever tactic it is that she's trying to use to get my attention and she'll do that.

I mean, she posts passive aggressive things on Facebook.

And so I, for me, it's just not responding.

And I'll give I, I just won't call her for weeks at a time and she's behaving that way and, and she kind of will come around and be like, you're right, I haven't been in the best mindset.

But at the same time, she's elderly and I feel like as the youngest, I'm, I'm stepping up a lot just to, to make sure she's taken care of.

So, you know, though I have those boundaries, it is difficult, yeah, to manage at times.

But, you know, I think just protecting your peace means so much in these situations.

The Importance of Protecting Your Peace

Because she hasn't apologized.

Like, I don't feel like I owe her anything.

The things that I'm doing for her are just because of the person I am, and I want to be doing them right.

Thank you for for talking about that because it's really important.

And also just something I feel like we're just recommending this book to everyone to read, but you know, they talk about how, you know, emotionally if people have something traumatic in their life, right happen, that's typically like around the time that they stop maturing emotionally wise, right?

And so my mom, when I'm dealing with her it, it truly is like she's a 17 year old petty high school girl.

It's not a easy conversation when you want to have some depth to it.

Because she feels attacked and she's just not capable emotionally or her maturity level is just not there still at 80 years old, right?

And that's the hardest part is because I really like at first, I really just wanted to like, sit down and hash this out and like talk about everything.

Like I wanted to know everything.

And she just wasn't capable of doing that and still still isn't.

I mean, if I were to talk about it with her today, I mean, she's going to say the same thing and she's going to blame my birth certificate father for cheating on her all those years, even though, you know, she obviously cheated as well.

But she was not the bad guy in the situation.

It was him.

And that's honestly all I get.

So it's not an apology.

It's just so and so pushed me to this.

But like keeping it a secret, you know, like I, I truly don't think she understands that impact because it's also I'm from a smaller town.

It gets even better, right, Because my bio dad ended up marrying one of her best friends later in life who when my mom retired, she went and worked at her jewelry store alongside with her and her brother was my godfather.

And I found out like all those people knew, right?

But like the fact that my mom like there's to me and now that I'm when I look back on it, I find it so odd that she was so close to my bio dad's wife and like helped her through.

I mean she had pancreatic cancer and ended up passing away.

I was like there for her the whole time and around my bio dad all the time.

And I just think how bizarre that like, that was happening, but like, you knew the like, this person was my biological dad.

And I remember him being around my whole life.

What has happened there with the with the new found family?

The New Found Family

It's been a few years now.

We met up in person once and it was, you know, that was great.

Feel like I'm kind of the one like probably trying to to build a relationship or keep a relationship moving.

He does like reach out to me on holidays, messages me.

He wants me to call him dad.

When we first met up in person, you know, he did tell me.

It's like, well, I want you to know that I love you, you know, and I think this is what I tell people about that.

It's like, it's almost like when you're on a first date and you're just getting love bombed by someone.

Yeah, yeah.

You're like, whoa, like slow down, right?

Like it's like, you know, but.

And he had known your whole life is.

He had known my whole life.

And so for him, maybe it's like this like pent up excitement.

I but I'm curious, you know, what did he really have to say about the fact that he did know for so long?

The Impact of His Absence

I know obviously it didn't work out with your mom.

He wasn't interested in a relationship there.

But what did he have to say about his absence as a father in your life?

Ever since he got back from Vietnam, he told me he was not in a good place at that time when when this affair happened with my mom because he worked with my birth certificate father and they were friends.

And he just keeps saying, you know, I was not a good person back then.

He said that I did, I did offer to be there for you and to financially, you know, take care of you and your mom just said no, my birth certificate father was just going to take me on his his own, which probably because she didn't tell him, but you know, I think he probably would have had my mom not wanted to keep it a secret.

But the whole reason behind that was she just didn't want to be outed.

I don't think she realized though, my birth certificate father did know.

I mean, he had a vasectomy after my, my last brother, who's like 2 year, a year and a half older than me.

And you know, my mom said, oh, the doctor said it can happen.

And I was with my birth certificate father when he was passing away in Hospice.

And you know, at this time didn't know any of this, but he did try telling me something when he was at that time was inveritable and could barely talk.

But he pulled me to him and was trying to say something.

And and the siblings that knew, you know, later now in life have told me.

That they knew he was trying to tell me the truth.

And so I don't know, I, I, I wish my mom would have let my bio dad step in and try to be a part of my life because I think it just would have saved a lot of heartache in the future for, for not only myself, but, you know, my birth certificate father and, and my siblings and, and I, you know, again, don't think she realized the impact that I had on, on so many.

The Impact of My Birthfather on My Life

But you know, when I first met up with my bio dad, he did ask me.

He was like, what do you want from me?

I don't have any money.

Oh, interesting.

And I was like, no, that's not Yeah, that's not at all.

Why?

And again, you know, once you read that book, I can look at him too and see he definitely went through his traumatic experience, whether it was Vietnam.

And so he has like the same maturity level as my mom, which is really interesting.

Where are things at a few years in?

Because I think a lot of people, they have that initial burst of excitement you kind of talked about like maybe some love bombing kind of thing going on where it's just super, I want to get to know you and let's make up for all the lost time and, and all of that.

The aftermath of the breakup

And then now you're a few years out.

What does it look like today?

Today it just looks like just a lot of Facebook messages and, you know, just banter on Facebook.

I've reached out to aunts and uncles, so his siblings who I'm connecting with, and I'm actually planning to travel to Arizona to see one of his brothers this next year.

He's been great.

He's been so open about it and I'm going to go meet them.

So we just had that conversation.

So there's no plans set in place, but we're really hoping to get together.

But you know, you still you more in like missing out on not knowing who your true family is, you know, biological family.

And I do think that's something that I've dealt with.

I don't know if you had a similar situation or if you're connected with all of your, your bio family now, but I think you just wonder like, who am I?

You know, who do I look like?

And that's something I still do, right?

Like I constantly want to dive through Facebook photos of his siblings and just see if I can see any old pictures of like, my grandma I never got to meet, you know?

So it's pretty.

It's really interesting.

And I never, I don't look like any of my siblings.

And so it makes sense.

Yeah, That makes sense.

No, too.

Speaking of your siblings, I mean they carry that burden.

They carry the weight of the secret for a very long time and and you've talked about how it it affected them having to keep that secret to the point where some of them didn't even want to really be around your mom for a period of time.

The Impact of the Secret on Your Siblings

What is your relationship like with them now and what is the family dynamic like with your mom and them and everyone?

With my siblings, for the most part, we all get along really well.

Definitely.

I think it brought us closer in ways.

One particular sibling who when I told him I was doing the ancestry test, like, he did say a few things that made me think, like, he would always just tell me.

He's like, I just want you to know, like, you belong here.

Like you belong here.

And he would always say that to me.

And I was like, well, thank you, You know, like, thank you.

I am glad I'm here.

You know, he knew I was going to find out someday.

Do I wish he told me directly?

Probably, but at the same time I learned how much it impacted him because he hated my mom for what she did and cheating on his dad, right.

He was very, very close to my birth certificate father and I think it he definitely had some mom issues and still does to some extent with that and my siblings too.

I mean, my sister, you know, I think for her to be sworn to secrecy at 16, you know, she got married very early.

She was married and moved out of the house by 18 because she said it was just too toxic to be there with my mom.

But it sounded like my mom after that became quite a partier and wood forest my sister to babysit my brother and I.

And so, you know, for her to have that knowledge and then see my mom just kind of like partying all the time and not really taking an interest and, and me or my next closest sibling was really frustrating for her.

And then when I end ultimately ended up having my own daughter.

And my sister told me at that time, she she thought about talking to my mom and telling her that she needed to tell me the truth.

My daughter has my last name now because I raised her as a single mom.

And that last name that we carry is my birth certificate father's.

And so I think my sister was like hoping my mom would be truthful at that time and she she didn't say anything.

How do you feel about that carrying that name and and have you felt any like desire to correct your birth certificate or your name or anything like that?

Yeah, I have.

I mean, my daughter and I both joke about it like coming up with their own new last name and and it is something I think about, you know, I don't know that I want to change it to my bio dads either.

I don't know how I feel about that.

But it does feel weird to carry a name of someone who isn't.

Wasn't your father.

And then I found out most of his family knew too, right?

Can can you talk about that feeling?

You know, I've talked to a few people on the podcast now who have had to reckon with the idea that basically everyone in their lives knew except them.

The feeling of being a secret

What did that feel like and how did that affect you?

I don't live in Livingston anymore, but you know, I live like 25 miles away and I, I don't like going back to my hometown.

There's something about it with all, you know, all of the people finding out that, that knew it's, it's hard to discover that you're a secret that you didn't even know about, right?

Like you kind of just go through your past and in your mind.

It's just so interesting.

It's almost like an out of body experience, right?

You're kind of just like, step away from it all.

And you're just like, so weird that I was like the secret that most everyone knew about.

And I was like, you.

You almost feel like the butt of a joke.

And if also, you know, now that you know, now that people know or I know they know on both sides.

I get approached like at my stepfather's funeral a few months ago, some of the people on my birth certificate, father's side, you know, cousins pulled me aside and.

And they're like, we understand, you know, now.

And I just want you to know, like you'll always be your cousin.

You're always part of our family.

And that to me almost is like, I I would rather them not approach me.

And say that.

Do you know what I mean?

Because it's just like a.

Reminder that they knew and you didn't or something.

It is, it is.

And, and also like it's not that easy to just, I think when I first started telling people my story, they were like, oh, well, it's not a big deal.

Like you'll always be, I'm not going to say my last name because, you know, for privacy purposes, you know, I think people say that a lot to, to those who are in the situation is, oh, well, you're always going to be their sister, you're always going to be their cousin, you're always going to be their daughter or whatever the case may be.

And it's easier said than done when you discover this.

I'm sure over time it gets better and it has for me.

I just don't, I don't think people understand that it is all different now, right?

Like you go back and question your entire life and your entire personality and who you are as a person.

And it's just it's it's not as easy, I don't know, to just move forward and act like nothing happened.

But you're and you're still going to be family with everyone who you thought was your family, right?

There's more to it.

How would you compare the first time you went on a podcast with with Lily and you shared your story and it was much more fresh at that time.

How has your story changed?

Now you've had some space, What would you say is is different or how are you doing compared to that time?

I've just kind of now come to terms with the fact that, you know, my mom's not going to ever apologize to me.

So I would say in that way, like things have gotten better, but I, I feel like I went from 1 abandonment issue to another, right?

Because I feel like I'm the one trying to create a relationship with my bio dad.

And though he is like engaging and what not, I mean he's he's older too, so and he's not very healthy.

And so I think that's part of not being able to get together.

But I know he goes and he plays bingo.

My, my daughter plays bingo every Wednesday in her hometown.

And he does too.

And they sit literally like back-to-back and she's super shy anyways, but like he is too.

And he's never approached her.

Where to me, it's like that could be a easy way to build a relationship.

I mean, seeing each other as often as they do.

And so, you know, I think I was hoping for for more out of a relationship there.

And, and that's OK.

I mean, it's probably not going to happen.

I'd like to see old pictures of family members.

Like I said, I love history and genealogy.

So a lot of what I've been doing is just like finding out stuff on my own on that side of the family, you know, utilizing ancestry and then his his siblings, right?

I think probably back when I was on Lily's podcast, I thought I would be further along in a relationship with him at this point.

Do you feel like you've made peace with the lack of connection there, or is it something that you're still hoping for?

I think I've made peace with it.

And I think a lot of that comes from, you know, my stepdad was basic, was my dad.

He married my mom when I was 2.

I don't even know if he knows this DNA story.

I have a feeling he doesn't or never did because like I said, my mom didn't want anyone to know.

But again, I don't think he would have told me, but he was he was so special to me and you know, is with him at the end.

And you know, we just we had some special time together.

But I think just realizing who's important in your life versus trying to chase that false hope, I guess having that false hope that you're going to reconnect with your bio dad and just realizing like my stepdad was my dad.

I think that's helped me immensely and having that special bond with him.

It it definitely has brought me some peace.

So many of our stories have these unanswered questions, questions we will never be able to ask or maybe trust the answers for.

Unanswered questions

Do you have any of those as it relates to your story?

I'm sure I do.

I do question why my bio dad knowing me as long as he did my entire life, seeing me grow up in front of him, why he didn't make a bigger effort.

And you know, his his wife, who I knew very well, he told me that she knew and that was it was a point of contention in their marriage.

And, you know, I just, I do kind of wish that like somebody just spoke up and I grieve not needing, you know, a grandma who sounds amazing, you know, and I think there's grief there in that because she was alive up until I was, I think she passed away when I was in my late 20s.

And for my daughter, you know, and I think one of the other biggest things, right, is our genetic health.

My, my birth certificate father passed away from cancer.

And there's a lot of cancer on his side of the family.

And my sister's currently battling cancer, sadly right now.

And every time I went to the doctor, like it was on my chart all over just my cancer history, but that wasn't my history.

So when I found out my bio dad's history, there's no cancer on his side, you know.

And so, you know, I think just for those purposes too, for for people to know their genetic health.

And now I understand like some of my own health issues right around like really arthritis and things like that, like definitely coming from my bio dad.

You know, Kimmy, I, I know we don't get along very well, but I love you and you shouldn't have to be dealing with this.

And I was like, well, that's an odd thing to say, you know, like, and so I think for me, a lot of that just lies within the lies that my mom kept and watching me struggle with my abandonment issues with my birth certificate father.

Like I look at my own daughter and I would never want her to, to struggle in life in any way, shape or form, you know, and my mom watched that my entire life.

Me basically, like we we all know what abandonment issues lead to right leads to dating the wrong men.

You're chasing people you shouldn't be chasing, but it kind of just creates these crazy patterns.

And and I just wish she had like, watching me go through all of this, like took a step back and then think about herself in the moment, protecting herself, but protecting me as her child, you know?

Yeah, What advice do you have for a parent who may be keeping adna surprise from their child?

Advice for parents

As hard as it is probably for them to to tell the truth, it's the best thing they can do for their their children and their loved ones.

I know it's hard to feel that shame or, or let that shame out.

And also like I have a feeling that telling the truth is going to set them free.

So that's my that's my advice there.

And what advice do you have for someone who just uncovered Adna surprise?

Yeah, it's OK to to feel the feelings and and you're probably going to feel like you're in an out of body experience a little bit like you're not yourself, you don't know who you are.

There's like an identity shift and I experienced that on many levels.

It's just a reminder like to, to, it's OK to feel the feelings that you're feeling because it is complicated and it's, it's scary and it's hurtful and, and it's all those things.

But again, just leaning in on, you know, the MPE network that exists and connecting with people and just having conversations around it.

Incredibly helpful for moving forward.

Kim, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.

I really appreciate you sharing your story.

And I will be sure to link your NPE Stories episode in the show notes for people to listen to.

But it's so good to kind of check in with people and hear how they're doing after a few years.

So I hope that things continue moving in a positive direction and that you keep those boundaries going.

And I just wish you the best.

Thank you so much, Alexis.

It was great to meet with you today.

And you know, thanks for doing this again, holding space for others to tell their story.

Thanks again to Kim for sharing her story.

If you have Adna Surprise that you'd like to share, please submit your story at dnasurprises.com.

Until next time, this episode of DNA Surprises was hosted, produced and edited by me, Alexis Ourselt.

It was mixed and mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording Studios.