Bonus Episode: DNA Surprises & Grief – An interview with grief specialist Jennica Klemann

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Speaker 1

The TNA surprise Journey can be shocking, upsetting and isolating, but you're not alone and there is hope connection and Community are powerful tools as we process.

And he'll DNA surprise Network and DNA surprises podcast are proud to host.

The first ever DNA, surprise Retreat May for through the 7th 2023 and Tucson Arizona.

Join Us for four days of healing, including expert-led sessions delicious meals and fun time together that will help us integrate our DNA surprises and Lead, happier more fulfilling lives.

If you've been looking for space to learn grow and heal, this is your sign.

Registration is open.

Learn more at DNA surprise retreat.com So even to and PE individuals have experienced the same thing, they can't honestly know how you feel, right?

So they are their experiences unique to them because of the relationships that they have with the people in their lives.

And so depending on your culture, your religion and or how you were taught to cope with grief and pain will vary, you know, some have never seen their parents cry.

So how is that behavior?

Speaker 2

Modeled for you, and some losses are felt more profoundly than others, depending on your relationship to the person or life

event.

Welcome to a very special bonus episode of DNA surprises.

In this episode, I'm joined by Jennica klieman an advanced certified grief, recovery, specialist and Arizona, licensed massage therapist.

She specializes in a variety of losses including death divorce, loss of Health, child loss, petelificent At loss and complicated familial Dynamics, just to name.

A few jenica, is facilitating a session on Grief at the DNA.

Surprise retreat.

In this episode.

We discussed the different kinds of grief misconceptions about grief and how we can begin to integrate grief into our lives.

Grief is a huge part of the DNA, surprise journey.

I hope you find this information

Speaker 3

helpful.

Today, I am joined by Jennica klieman and she is an advanced certified grief, recovery specialist, and she is going to be facilitating a session on Grief at the DNA surprise Retreat.

So I asked her to join us to talk about grief as it pertains to DNA surprises and some of what she's going to cover at the retreat in May.

Thanks for joining me jenica, thank you for having me.

So, just to get started, can you talk a little bit about your background and how you got started in grief?

Work.

Sure I've been a massage therapist since 1999, and I started working with some of my clients that are retirees and they were experiencing pet loss, spouse loss, parental loss, loss of siblings and friends.

And it just seemed like I needed to frame a treatment where those feelings were facilitated in a way that I could hold space for them as opposed to a traditional massage.

So if they got emotional during a session, I wanted them to know that that was okay, tissues are next to the table.

We can work through it.

We can stop.

I can pause whatever you need to do and that seemed to be more beneficial for them in addition to their regular massage work.

And so, and I want to say, in 2011, I went into my own practice and I met a great facilitator.

Her name is Bobby.

Real.

She's here in Tucson and she encouraged me.

To pursue a more advanced or a more knowledge-based type of work.

Since I was doing grief massage and she was doing grief recovery work and she was like great, I want you to go through my eight-week workshop and experience the work for yourself and I was like, oh crap.

I have to do work myself.

I can't just sit there and watch and she says, Nope, there's no observers everyone, Grieves.

And so that started, My healing work.

I had been greedy.

Actively grieving the loss of my grandfather for 17 years.

I couldn't talk about him without crying and in doing the grief recovery work for myself, I was able to find completion with the pain.

I had attached to his loss, and I felt that as long as I was still in pain, I was keeping his memory clothes and I thought that if I let go of that pain, I'd letting go of his memory and that wasn't true.

And I I was able to let go of the pain and move forward with positive feelings about our relationship and understanding my relationship with him and why it was important to me and what I missed about him and it was just a much healthier and Freer way to process my grief than what I had been doing before.

And so that made me want to be a grief recovery specialist myself and I got certified in 2019 and then in 2020 during the pandemic and the closures I did additional training to become Advanced certified.

And now I can do my work online through Zoom so I can serve more people, that way.

Wow.

Yeah.

So it was a very personal Journey for you.

You kind of just mention this.

So your introduction to the grief recovery.

Work was in a way that I think a lot of people are most familiar with grief which is death loss, the The death of a grandparent parent or other loved one but I think, you know, in the DNA surprise world, we talk about grief, a lot.

So where else does grief come into our lives?

Well, in the work, I do we recognize that there's over 40 different losses.

A person can experience in their lifetime and divorce are the most common, but there's also loss of pet moving Financial stability, infertility miscarriages.

Courage, sexual dysfunction and not having the ability to procreate.

There's also a loss of Health change in lifestyle, loss of friendship, pretty much, any time we experience a loss of an individual or where, impacted by a significant life event.

Mmm, those can produce the feelings of grief and loss.

And I do just want to call out and thank you because you've really immersed yourself after we connected and talked about doing the retreat.

Has grief is such a big part of this experience.

I know that you've learned a lot since we connected.

So, thank you for really holding space for this community based on your observations.

In what ways might someone who's experienced a DNA, surprise experience grief?

I've learned that there

are so many in listening to your podcast and learning more, just having conversations with people, People, everyone has a story and it's like, that's lost that's loss.

And I've noticed that primarily there's lots of trust and many times, estrangement with the bio parent, particularly the mom and there's also the possible loss of connection with the bio dad especially if he's already deceased by the time the MP e individual finds out about them or they're just not Stood in pursuing a relationship and so that's a loss because you have this new understanding and there's nothing you can do with it and so you're you're grieving that relationship that was never

possible.

There's also a loss of Heritage and culture that's another thing that I've learned about if you were raised a certain way and find out like you experienced yourself that you identified a certain way and then you find out out your part of a whole other ethnicity and you have your learning A Whole New side and those recipes or Traditions that were once part of who you were aren't there anymore.

So there's a loss of culture loss of identity and that can be really huge.

There's also the loss of time, if you'd lost, if you had known sooner, what was possible?

If there was honesty from the beginning, what would have that look like what would have your life been like for you?

So there's the Awesome.

What could have been?

Yeah, there's lots of also the loss of answers where no one knows what you're going through and it can be hard to find the support that you need.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, I feel so seeing right now.

Like, yeah, those are definitely all losses that I can relate to and I think a lot of the people that listen to the podcast can relate to as well.

So there's there's all this loss, all this different grief, different forms of grief.

How Does grief affect

us.

Well, grief is trauma.

It hurts.

It hurts us physically and emotionally.

It's a tremendously stressful experience and with any stress it affects your ability to sleep function, even routine tasks, can be a challenge or and even our immunity.

We're more susceptible to illness because of the stress that we're under and to get technical.

It's a hormone response and so that affects Every system of your body, and those hormones can cause heart issues, breathing issues, digestive issues cognitive issues, you know, memory deficits.

It's like I've got grief brain because I walked into the room and I don't remember what I went in there for, and I just feel that way all the time.

I just don't know what I'm doing from one minute to the next, but it's important to remember.

That grief is a human experience.

And feelings of grief are relative to Everyone, everyone goes through grief and loss at some point in their lives and it's the feelings that can't be intellectualized, even though those statements are cliches make sense, it doesn't necessarily make us feel better and yeah, it's a process that needs to be acknowledged and work through

yes.

In our minds, we can say, okay, I'm grieving we can name the emotion, but there's work to do to process that.

So your process involves the grief recovery.

It, which was new to me as I was, you know, going through and learning about the work that you do and in preparing for the retreat knowing that we wanted to have a grief component, can you talk a little bit about what the grief recovery method is?

So, I've been trained and certified in their grief recovery method which is evidence-based and it's recognized all over the world.

And it's a 7-week action step program where I meet with a client for about an hour once a week for seven.

I'm weeks and we work on.

Identifying what's helpful?

What's not helpful in processing a loss.

We talk about all the losses and event and individual has experienced so that's the Lost history graph that we will do and then they get to pick one of those significant most significant losses to work on together.

Then we take a deep dive and examine the highs, and lows of that relationship, whether it's a person or a life event, like a DNA surprise, they're given the opportunity to Share their emotional statements, like apologies, forgiveness and acknowledgements with me with honesty, without being censored.

And there's no judgment and our shame and sharing those feelings with me, which is different with me than family and relatives.

So they are able to share things that they wouldn't be able to share with other people.

And then, finally, all this work comes together at the end for a completion letter to the pain attached to the loss.

They get to say goodbye and release.

The pain with the correct tools to go back and work on the previous losses that they didn't realize they hadn't worked on yet.

Or they have the appropriate skills to handle future losses, which is inevitable.

And I can do my work in person here in Tucson or online, with zoom anywhere in the country.

Kind

of going back to all the different ways that DNA surprises can cause grief for npes, for adoptees for donor conceived people.

And and thinking about the fact that we can't necessarily Intellectualize.

It is a feeling when I went through, my DNA, surprise in the beginning and I was in therapy.

And I remember saying I'm just sad, I'm just really sad.

And my therapist helped me name it.

She said I think you're experiencing grief and when she said that it really opened up a lot for me to realize really what I was going through.

Why is it so important?

For us, especially, you know, in the DNA surprise world but broadly for any lost to acknowledge grief.

When you think back to the first question that you asked me and over 40 different losses, a person can experience.

So you've got the different types of grief, it puts into perspective that an individual has already experienced several losses already and then adding a DNA surprise to the list that's pretty overwhelming and world, as you know, it has been

upended.

And

Changed forever and dealing with this life event, in a healthy way allows you to process the future challenges in.

A more manageable way in relation to what you just mentioned.

The sadness, it's often grief is often misdiagnosed as depression, and even though you have depressed feelings, grief is normal and natural and suppressing those depressed feelings, or having the diagnosis of depression, just delays, the inevitable, it compounds the Those feelings to where you never really deal with it and you're just, you know, taking medication to be able to cope even.

It might be necessary for some people.

I'm not shaming radication at all.

I take medication myself, but when you're taking medication to suppress feelings, that are normal and natural, it's important to acknowledge that.

Mmm.

So in order to work through the Stop really.

Is that acknowledgement, right?

When you're talking about your process.

And, and when you were talking about your own personal experience, releasing the pain associated, with the death of your grandfather, is grief ever over.

You know, is that, it's not something that ends for

people, right?

When I first went into doing grief work, I think, one of my biggest fears was working with people, who'd experienced homicide and suicide.

I'd in there either close relation or their families because that is just so

intense.

And how

does somebody you can't get over that and you can't get over learning that your paternity has changed, that's inevitable.

And so again, we need to normalize grief and grief is the normal and natural response to loss of any kind.

And it's also unique to each individual.

And I can tell you you that you can learn to find completion with the pain associated with the laws, so that you can continue through life with proper coping skills and knowing what to expect, when you go through life changes, So that you can move forward feeling more confident.

So grief is never is never completely gone.

Yeah, I going through grief work isn't going to make it go away because you have

a heart, right?

Right.

It's a human experience.

But you can learn to deal with it in a healthier way and that's what I

do.

And that's something.

I feel like I've learned from talking to you.

And the other facilitators is that I think as As a society, we have this tendency to suppress.

Like, you are saying any quote-unquote, negative emotions are emotions that we've deemed to be negative, but are actually a part of life.

And it's really about learning, how to cope with those experiences.

And then move through what are some.

Things I know will go much further into this at the retreat but what are some things that people can do to have a healthier coping strategy when it comes to Being a DNA,

surprise.

One of the things is being able to talk through it honestly, so that you don't feel like you are trying to make other people feel comfortable and being able to be honest, about your emotions and speak freely and the anger and the confusion, and the Betrayal that comes from it, with someone maybe outside of your your your support.

Circle.

They're going, they're going to be on your side, no matter what, but they may also have a relationship with your mom or your family and you're not able to be completely open.

So being able to have somebody to talk to is very, very important and then making sure that you understand these habits that you might slip into drugs and alcohol are probably the most common in avoidance, but also Entertainment exercise working all those things that you do to avoid being alone, being still and just feel what you feel.

When you feel it grief isn't linear.

It's I don't perpetuate the stages of losses which are going to ask.

These stages of grief.

Like is that a real ugly?

Is that a real king?

But your yeah.

Elisabeth Kubler-Ross identified the stages of death and dying as it relates to terminal illness.

She was later.

Quoted as saying that she regrets that her, her stages were interpreted differently for loss grief and loss, because you can't compartmentalize a flow of feelings.

When it's like, okay, denial, you can't deny that.

Your dad is your dad or different debt, right?

Your bio dad versus your birth certificate, dad, that's happened.

You have to, you can't deny that's happened and denying that isn't healthy and then there's bargaining, you can't bargain a different outcome.

Anger happens for some people but not for others.

And then, you know, depressed, you can be you can have depressed feelings, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you are depressed as a diagnosis, which is a chemical.

Response and then acceptance.

You know, it's like people skip around or they feel one and they don't fill another.

So that stages don't don't necessarily make sense because you can't pigeonhole

feelings.

Yeah, and I mean, I think when it happened for me and then initial aftermath, I think I did identify with some of those feelings that denial.

Even though I had the evidence right in front of me, I was like, maybe, maybe there was a mistake somehow.

I think I hear that a lot from

other npes, but yeah, it does the stages of grief implies that, there is a completion and I think sometimes those feelings will still pop up every now and then it's just about how you manage

them.

Yeah, people want steps.

It's like okay once I'm done with this then I'll move to this and if they don't follow the stages, they think that they're doing it wrong and you can't because Reef is an individual experience there.

There's no right or wrong way to

grieve.

So as we look toward the retreat, what can people who are attending?

Expect to learn about grief and how they can process it and move forward in their DNA surprise

experience.

Sure.

Um, so I am taking what, I know it's kind of an abbreviated experience because we have a limited time together.

So what what I'm planning to do is I would like individuals to identify their losses because knowledge is power and, you know, you can kind of face the beast when you know what you're dealing with.

So let's acknowledge your losses and they will be unique to them and their own situation.

Even though they relate to the other people, the other participants, everyone is having their own loss experience, and I think that's important to identify and what those losses are for each person.

And then I think it's important to do.

This emotional work with others who understand, even though they have their own individual MPE Journey, then we'll talk about how holding onto their pain is unhealthy.

Particularly with certain coping coping mechanisms and behaviors that they may be turning to, to avoid their pain.

And then I'll share the myths associated with loss as it relates to a DNA surprise.

As an example, your dad is always going to To be your dad, your dad, your dad, he loved hearing.

So here, you hear that a lot?

And that's an intellectual statement and grief is an emotional experience.

So the myths are things that people say because either they don't know what to say, or they think they're being helpful, but a myth is don't feel bad and replace the loss.

So there are six common myths and we'll learn about those and how those laws.

It

has fallen to those myths and maybe dull the response to those statements so that you aren't as offended maybe or triggered by them.

So I just have to say I'm really looking forward to that

because that is definitely something that still bothers me because I have noticed that there's some commonalities in Things that MP, he's here from individuals who don't understand the situation and your dad is still, your dad is is one of them and it's like, well, that may be true,

but exactly.

So, we'll learn about those myths and identify them as they relate to, the DNA, surprise experience.

And then they will also have an opportunity to write a letter and share it with a partner and release some of those things.

That they wish they could say and aren't able to say or they've said and didn't feel heard and have the experience of someone hearing them say it.

And then we'll also talk about some self-care methods to help ease the stress of what they're going through and I'm so

excited that's going to be incredible.

What are ways that people who are maybe outside of the DNA?

Surprise can support.

Somebody who's grieving?

I think it Would be so helpful for people to hear because they don't know what to do.

They don't know.

And they I think people are coming from a good place.

So what are things that that someone can do to support someone?

Who's grieving?

First of all it's okay to not know what to say.

It's an intense reality for someone who's going through a DNA surprised.

They don't even know how they feel sometimes and to have the expectation that their loved ones are going to know the right thing to say, for In that moment, or any given moment because your emotions are all over the place.

So, it's okay to not know what to say.

And it's okay to say, I honestly don't even know what to say, but I care about you and I'm here to support you.

You're not alone in this and sometimes they don't even know what they need.

So you got to pitch in and if you're having a bad day, bring them soup or offer to go through their mail.

Offer to do their laundry, because Sometimes with grief.

It's it's enough to be able to get out of bed because the day is just too big sometimes and so offering unconditional support and being able to hold space.

For someone means that you're with them 100% And your present minded and you're on that Journey with them and wherever that takes takes you not knowing what to say is, okay?

But you can also say, I don't, I can't imagine What you're going through, it sounds like you're in a lot of pain or even the way that you say something.

Is this confusing for you?

Are you feeling overwhelmed, you know being information-seeking as opposed to a signing of feeling it's like well no I'm not exactly overwhelmed.

I'm just really confused and giving them the opportunity to find the words to express themselves as opposed to telling them how to feel you should or shouldn't or if I were you this is what I I would do.

And when you start to tell somebody how to feel, that's the quickest way to shut them down and get shut out.

So, just having compassion and empathy and just being there and saying, I care.

And I'm here for you and then following through and actually being there.

Yes,

yeah.

Oh, that's such good advice.

That's really amazing.

Because I, I do think that there's so many people with good intentions and they just don't know.

And because grief is one of those negative things in our society, and we don't really talk about it, people don't, they really don't have the tools to support people when they see them going through it.

So thank you for sharing that

and there's fear, and it's uncomfortable.

When you're afraid of what somebody else is going through it, whether it's a DNA surprise, or cancer or the loss of a child, you can't fathom what that feels like.

So instead of Trying and failing ask.

How is, how is

today for you?

What are you feeling today?

And and just listening being a heart with ears.

Oh, I love that heart with ears.

Well, I am so excited for the retreat.

I'm so excited for this session.

It's going to be so helpful to so many people.

And even this little mini bonus episode, I hope that people really found value and Some of the things that you were sharing.

I know I did.

And really looking forward to it.

Thanks for joining Jennica.

Thank you for inviting me.