Nichell’s DNA Surprise

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Nichelle Reflects on Her Mother’s Cruelty and Forgiveness

She was very cruel towards me.

The conversation that happened that led to me receiving my father’s name was.

It was horrible.

She’s been not the nicest person towards me, but time after time I forgive.

I’ve taken the fact that she’s my mother.

She had a choice.

I think that she had a choice.

I was 67, but she chose to have me.

She gave me life and without that, I wouldn’t have, you know, my kids and the life that I have.

So it may not be pretty, but I could, I could have handled it.

I could have handled it in my 20s, thirties.

I would have preferred to have handled it, you know, back then.

And like I said yesterday, I’m learning a new truth.

And it’s, it’s always taking me back a little bit whenever she decides to, to share these little tidbits.

Host Introduces Nichelle’s Life-Altering DNA Discovery Story

Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that explores the life altering world of unexpected DNA discoveries.

I’m your host, Alexis Ourselt.

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This.

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Show centers the stories of people who’ve experienced NP, ES or non paternal events.

In other words, people who’ve learned that their biological father isn’t who they thought he was.

We’ll also hear from adoptees, donor conceived people, and the family is navigating these discoveries.

Get ready to follow the incredible journeys that begin with a simple DNA test.

This is DNA surprises.

What happens when you spend your whole life searching for where you belong, only to discover shocking information after decades of putting the pieces together?

Nichelle grew up knowing she was different.

Raised in an African American family, she looked different from the people around her, and from an early age, she wondered about the identity of her biological father.

Over the years, she found family, faced unanswered questions, and built relationships that shaped her understanding of who she was.

Decades later, her daughter took ADNA test.

In this week’s episode, Nichelle shares how she uncovered her biological father’s identity, difficult truths about her origins, and an unexpected relationship that helped her find something she’d been searching for all along.

Belonging.

Thank you for sharing your story, Nichelle.

Nichelle’s Childhood Search for Belonging and Identity

Hi Alexis, my name is Nichelle.

I am 59, I don’t feel it and I’m from California.

My story is about identity, belonging, family secrets, survival and resilience.

I guess I was born in 1967, raised in an African American household.

I looked nothing like anyone else in my family.

Everyone else was darker, complected pinky hair.

I was always mistaken for Indian, Hispanic, anything but African American.

My mother had me when she was 16, a year after having me, which must have been tough for a black woman in the 60s popping out a child that looked not much like her.

She married a sailor from Northern California who I call Daddy.

And daddy was very abusive towards my mother physically and also abusive towards me.

And I can remember, you know, from my my earliest age, age 2, that he was just a tyrant.

His family also made comments that let me know that I was not his child.

My mother was often very angry and unhappy and emotionally cruel, and I again understand that I have a lot of compassion towards that.

Because she was 16, having a baby, it could not have been easy for her.

Early Speculation and Abuse in Nichelle’s Childhood

I spent much of my life searching for what I thought was a normal family and that picture perfect family.

I can remember being in elementary school in the cafeteria, looking at the door, hoping that someone would come in and rescue me, that my my real family would show up.

But that was not the case.

So when Daddy was on one of his situations, or well, he would go through spells where he was really terrible, my mom would leave him and she would try to get herself situated in a new spot.

My mom would send me to my grandmother and with my grandmother also lived 2 uncles and this is back to Southern California so it was like ping pong back from Southern California to Northern california-based on whatever was happening in their relationship and with my grandmother.

I had two uncles and they too were highly abusive and they loved to torment this little beautiful mixed girl.

My grandmother was very loving, but they were something else and they would say things like I was found in the trash can that I wasn’t wanted.

There was always speculation put out there about my biological father.

He was little the landscaper.

I remember being a child and being fixated on this photo that was in our photo album of a of a man who was lighter complected curly hair and I imagined that he was my father because why would this random dude’s photo be in our our photo album?

Did your mom say anything?

About who your biological father was.

Nichelle’s First Attempt to Find Her Biological Father

She did at at one point in life, yeah.

Finally at 8 or 9, she left Daddy and things did become better.

I have at this point now I have a little sister and there was definitely like preferential treatment between my sister and I and I worked very young.

My grandmother had a business in Southern California and I worked for her sweeping floors and doing things I’d make, I don’t know, $25.00 a month.

And with that $25, I would then have to use that for clothing or school supplies.

Like my mother didn’t really provide for me, but then I’d see her providing for my sister.

So I would say at age 12, I had to come out with what was going on with the daddy situation.

And my mother and I had a conversation that turned into an argument where there was some abuse that took place.

But that argument gave me the opening to ask my mother, well, who’s my dad because of what she said.

She hinted that I allowed her ex-husband to treat me a certain way to abuse me.

And it opened up the door to ask who my biological father was.

And so now 12 year old Michelle is out there.

Like the next day I went to a phone booth and I dialed 411.

And I’m talking to this operator because I have this name and I know what city he’s from.

He’s from a different part of Southern California.

And they can’t find anyone with that name.

So I then asked my mother, I go back to my mom and that’s the name I have.

So you know, that’s she never romanticizes.

So this is the guy she was with.

There was an abandoned building.

That was the story.

It was never romanticized.

So I just went on the search for this this other family.

Nichelle Connects with Her Alleged Father’s Family

OK.

So she didn’t share.

A ton of details about who he was or anything like that, but you did have a name to go off.

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Of no, she gave me there was a there was a, a letter missing.

So and I feel, you know, this poor operator, I, you know, was pleading with her to help me find this family.

And so they they could not.

At 13, I received the news that my biological father had died from a family member.

Tragically, he was hit by a semi truck.

It’s terrible.

And he was on a motorcycle.

It was a bad, bad accident.

How did you find out that he died?

My mother’s cousin worked in the city where my supposed biological father was from and he was an electrician or worked with the utility company and everyone.

This is a very small town.

This town is very, very small.

And he learned that my supposed father had passed away.

So he told me about it and he gave me the correct name, the correct last name.

Eventually I met a man because I was in search for that picture perfect family.

And at 15 I became pregnant and I became emancipated.

So I was no longer my mother’s problem.

And I remember when we finally moved, she gave me a set of dishes and a good luck and that was that’s pretty much how our relationship has been.

I I mean, even yesterday I tried talking to her and it’s just, it’s, it’s really difficult.

She, she’s holding on tight to this whatever this secret is by 17.

I go back to 411 and they’re able to find someone with that last name in that city.

And her name was Grandma BI did get a chance to meet up with Grandma B And I actually found an aunt who I became very, very, very close with in my city.

At one point, I left my husband and she let me sleep on her, you know, in her, in her couch with my kids.

And we became extremely close.

To this day, she’s my Thea, my Thea Lethi.

And she eventually took me to where they lived and I met my Grandma B and family members and they totally embraced me.

They looked just like me to the point where I shopped at a Sally’s Beauty.

And one day I went in to just shop and the person behind the counter is like, your supplies are here.

And I’m like, I didn’t order anything.

Yes, you do.

You did, you know, you worked down the way and I actually walked afterwards down to see who this person was that who had ordered these supplies and it was my, my Thialetti.

So we looked that much alike one another.

Nichelle Finds Family and Faces Questions About Her Father

So to summarize where we are at this point, your mom had given you a name.

It wasn’t spelled correctly.

It wasn’t enough information.

So you weren’t able to find your biological father or who she said was your biological father on your own.

But other people knew about who your alleged biological father was.

And so when he passed, you found out through those channels, hey, he died, which is obviously very sad.

You didn’t have the opportunity to meet him, but then it connected you with a whole bunch of family.

So based off of the way that you’re talking about this family, it sounds like they are Latino.

You were raised though you said, in a African American household.

So how did that, how did that feel connecting with that part of your family?

There’s a funny story that I like to tell.

When I was five years old, I can remember walking down the street with my grandmother and I didn’t speak much.

But this particular time I thought I was speaking Spanish.

So I was like blah blah, blah, blah, blah blah and what are you doing?

I’m speaking Spanish.

So I’d always had a little bit of a connection there.

And my ex-husband was from Juarez, Chihuahua.

So at 16, I married into a Mexican family and I actually lived in Mexico for a year.

So by the time I met this family, I was, I was familiar with Latinos and they were made Puerto Rican and black.

There was they had every, every color, every shade in that family.

And they were very, very welcoming.

My grandmother Bee, initially, she told me you’re not my son’s daughter.

Her son was in Glenn, You’re not his daughter.

But he had told her that he had a daughter named Michelle.

And he wrote letters because he was in the military.

He would write letters home apologizing to his mother for the mistake that he made.

So he believed that, you know, he, he was my father.

There was a, a really deep connection, but there was always a question for her.

And she must have shared this story with someone because I received a phone call from a man claiming to be my father and one of her oldest sons thought that he was my father.

So something happened there.

And I, like I said, I’ll try to speak to my mom about it, talked with her and she’s just, she doesn’t want to to go there.

So this man calls me and once we hang up, I call my mother.

And I’m still 17.

So I’m still under that maternal mother daughter, she’s in charge.

You still want to believe whatever she says.

So I call her and I’m like, mom, this guy’s calling me saying that he’s my father, stay away from him, don’t talk to him.

And so I call him back and I say, my mom says you’re not my father.

I believe her.

I look at like this family, you know this family, because that’s how he got my information was through my grandmother B.

She gave him my information.

So there was always a a question still.

And I think even in their minds there was still a question, but they embraced me so much.

I felt like I was a part of the family.

Daughter’s DNA Test Leads to Unexpected Sisterhood

And Fast forward to 2016, and there’s this thing called DNA.

And my youngest daughter decides to take the ancestry test and she’s in Italy living her military wife’s life.

But she does the test and she contacts me afterwards and she says, mom, you need to have adna test because we are not what you think we are.

We’re supposed to have black and Indian.

There’s no Indian ma or not on my not on my portion.

So I would encourage you to take this test.

And there’s no one within that system that connects my daughter with my theolethi or of these other family members.

So I contact my theolethi, and by this time, there’s been 30 years of love, 30 years of embracing me.

She was at my wedding.

And I ask her to please take a paternity test with me.

And we take the paternity test.

And after a few weeks, she’s not my Thea.

Not at all.

No relation.

I’m devastated because, you know, I was not getting answers from my mother.

I thought I’d figured it out.

And but my, my Thea, such a beautiful woman says to me, Mikai, you’ll always be my family.

You’ll always be my niece.

So I knew that there was acceptance there, but now there’s more questions, so.

More questions, and that’s a long time to have.

You know that you you found them too.

It wasn’t as though you were raised by them.

You found them and built that relationship.

I’m so sorry.

That’s OK.

I mean, ultimately it’s OK ’cause that woman loves me so much.

And yeah, we speak several times a a month and it’s a relationship that’s, you know, that was, that’s God-given, you know, he, he blessed me with this amazing woman.

And I’m very close with her sister.

And actually her sister really helped me to figure some things out.

So we do the paternity test.

We’re not connected.

I go and I purchase the Ancestry DNA test and I submit the example and it becomes a waiting game again.

And once the results came in, I logged into the Ancestry platform and there was a woman there listed as my first cousin.

Now I’m excited again.

First cousin.

That means her father and my father are brothers.

Makes perfect sense.

So I send them message to her through Ancestry and I do a deep dive into this person.

I go in to Facebook and I find her and I do the Google search and I’m looking at pictures.

I’m like, wow, we kind of do resemble one another.

So she’s going to be the one that helps me figure out this mystery.

And I after waiting, she finally messages messages me back.

At this time, our daughter’s going to Stanford and this cousin lives in Sacramento.

So we agree to meet at a Starbucks where we were staying.

I think we’re staying in Castro Valley.

I am at the Starbucks ordering my drink, looking for someone who resembles me.

I, I knew what she looked like because of, you know, going through her Facebook photos and what have you.

And then walks this woman and there’s my connection.

It was surreal.

She had the same curly hair that I have, a little shorter.

Our complexions are not identical, but we sit and we we we chit chat.

There was an immediate connection.

So much so that she gives me the OK to use her raw data through ancestry because she didn’t know who her father was either.

So we don’t know who our our father is, neither one of us.

So maybe there are a set of brothers who came into the country and worked.

I get back to San Diego now.

That day was absolutely beautiful.

We’re two strangers, but we come together.

We go to San Francisco and tour the city with my husband, a chauffeur.

We are having lunch together.

We’re walking through the city.

And there were just moments that we’re like, wow, look at us.

We’re experiencing experiencing our first going across the bridge.

And it was really cool.

I was hanging out with my cousin and it felt like we belonged.

So getting back home, I put my daughter’s raw data with Belinda’s through Gedmatch.

And it comes back that there’s an Aunt Denise relationship.

So she’s not my cousin, she’s my sister.

Wow.

Born the same year.

The same year?

Five months.

Apart, what are you?

Thinking when you see that.

I’m flabbergasted.

There’s a lot of emotion.

All of the lies that I’ve been told for all of those years, just, I mean, they hit me.

But then the beautiful side of it is I have I have a sister and we go on this journey together.

Now we’re really in it and we start digging into some of the connections through ancestry.

But Linda and I had decided early on in that relationship, maybe even prior to the meeting, that whatever we found out was not going to change what we were creating because that was the past that we could not control.

We’re going to stand in today and build our relationship from this point forward.

There are so many similarities.

It was like we were supposed to have met.

She was at at 17.

I had a janitorial business.

She had a janitorial business at that same age.

We were conceived in the same city.

She had a son and two daughters.

She has a son and two daughters and I have a son and two daughters.

Our sons were born the same month in December of the same year.

Yes.

And she also does not know her father?

No.

Investigating the Difficult Truth of Their Shared Biological Father

Did she have any more information than you?

Did no.

So there was a cousin there who was able to give me another connection, and the cousin referred me to her father ’cause she was trying to figure out who her mother’s father was.

So we were sharing resources.

You should go to Gedmatch and you should see if you can put, you know, the raw data together and find out what exactly your relationship is with this other person.

So we were sharing information.

Our biological father has a very interesting last name.

It starts with AZ.

It’s not very common and that name kept showing up on the matches through Ancestry.

This new cousin gave me A a name that was similar to one of the ones on the match.

So ultimately what happened was the person that ended up calling me and saying that he was my father was my father.

I even shook this man’s hand when I visited my grandmother B, not knowing that he was my father.

So was he a friend of that family or?

So he wasn’t unknown to you, at least since you met.

You’re the first person that you thought was your biological father’s family.

So you did meet this man?

He said he’s your biological father, but at the time you believed it was Glenn.

He was the man who called me, and this is the guy that I said, no, you’re not my my father.

I had his name and then I had a sister to another aunt.

I don’t, I refuse to call her my aunt because she’s my age and we’re more like sisters because she’s just been a wonderful person also.

But she gave me his name.

She even went to school with his other children.

So I was able to put names together and I pieced it together.

I visited the city where we were conceived.

I went through the county to find birth certificates and things like that.

I found some other records that were helpful or useful.

So it was a very intense investigative period, I would say of maybe six months, where Linda and I were able to go to the courthouse.

We pulled this documentation and once I had a name, I was able to find relatives that were connected to him.

So he’s definitely our father.

He came from Mexico and he would work the harvest in that town.

I’m pausing because it’s not a pretty story because my mother was 15 when she got pregnant with me and I just found out within a week or so that how old he was and he was he was 45.

So it’s not it’s not a pretty story.

And then through the years, we found out that our mothers knew one another, Belinda and mine, they went to school together.

Her grandmother babysat my mother.

So these two women, and they may not have been close after, you know, like in high school, because my mother ended up coming back here.

But these two women who knew one another had a child by the same guy.

Yeah.

So you’re kind of grappling with maybe not knowing the full circumstances of, you know, how you came to be, but knowing based off of the age difference and some other things that it’s not, it’s not the story that maybe many of us would want to believe and tell ourselves, right, about how our parents met each other.

But you did meet your sister.

And I have a beautiful bond.

Exactly.

Exploring the Reasons Behind Her Mother’s Secrecy and Trauma

Do you think that maybe the circumstances around your mom becoming pregnant with you are part of why she doesn’t want to talk about it?

I think so.

I think it’s one of two things.

She probably was a little bit faster than kids her age.

There were some things that happened in her life, but who am I to judge?

I was married at 16.

I don’t think that she realizes that she can be real with me.

And I say this because of a conversation that I had with her just yesterday.

She gave me life.

And without that, I wouldn’t have, you know, my kids and the life that I have.

And it’s it’s always taking me back a little bit whenever she decides to to share these little tidbits.

And then I’ll hear from my younger sister, you know, I’ll hear things from her.

Mom said, you know, this happened.

And mom said like, she knows things, she’s talking to her, but why aren’t you talking to me?

It’s a very frustrating and I know it.

It couldn’t have been pretty.

But she drops little tidbits such as, yeah, I was with him.

He gave me $5, OK.

And then the conversation yesterday was something completely different and shocking.

So which is it?

But I think that’s a common thread in these stories, is that we have mothers who don’t want to share the whole truth.

Yeah, and not knowing, you know, what her traumatic experiences are and maybe how she has or hasn’t processed those things, I’m sure greatly impact how she behaves today.

Right is.

Confirming Biological Father’s Passing and Meeting Other Family

Your biological father still alive?

That’s a great question.

The day that Belinda and I went to the courthouse and we received his death certificate, we drove to the spot where he supposedly died.

So no, he’s not living.

He passed away and 2002, so when I talked to him was 1984.

So from 84 to 2002 the sky was living and I could have gotten to know him.

Maybe it wouldn’t have been a positive thing.

Maybe God saw that, you know, you don’t need to have him in your life and we’re going to keep him over there.

So no, he passed.

I was able to figure out that he buried someone.

He’s had a couple other kids.

So there’s a brother out there who lives in my city who I have a phone number, and I’m trying to decide if it’s something that I want to do, if I want to open that Pandora’s box or just leave it as as it is.

When I was getting to know Belinda, I purposely traveled up north to hang out with her.

And during that time, I found that we have another biological sister who is very secure in her life.

She and I did meet.

She had a hard time believing that I was her father’s daughter because he would not let her date African American men and she was married to a Caucasian man.

They had children.

And I remember her saying to me that day, how would I explain you to my kids?

What would I tell my kids?

And at that time, they may have been 12 or 13.

She was very cold.

I could tell she didn’t want, she didn’t want this.

And that’s fine.

I have respected that.

And she asked me, are you OK?

Are you dying?

You know, why are you trying to find me?

But she did take the time to meet with me.

And she made it clear that she said she would never do adna anything that had to do with the DNA.

So there was nothing that like directly connected me with her or with her father until more people started to show up on Ancestry.

And I also took my raw dad and I was also on 23andMe.

So a person would pop up here and as soon as you get to the second cousin, we could figure this puzzle piece out.

A second cousin popped up from Arizona.

She knew her mother and her father and her grandfather was my biological.

And I have been to Arizona to meet her, a very nice woman.

So yeah, there, there are lots of family members out there, but they’re in disbelief that this person was with, you know, my mother and Belinda’s mother.

Is Belinda also black?

Yeah, her mother says that he was her boyfriend, so.

And she was only a year older than my mother, so yeah.

Wow, it’s so interesting.

And then it’s interesting too, that Belinda wasn’t able to get any information until.

I showed up.

Right.

But then all of a sudden it was her mom’s boyfriend and.

Yeah, that just the way that these pictures become clear sometimes is using.

What’s interesting too, is that I’m a tax consultant where I live and the last name with AZ is very rare.

And I have a client with that last name who I’ve done taxes for for 20 years.

And come to find out we’re 4th cousins.

But we were able to figure out that we’re definitely, you know, connected.

I think her brother did Ancestry and we’re definitely in that same match.

Nichelle’s Journey to Acceptance, Approval, and Belonging

Wow, now that you have your answers, are there still any questions that you have?

Like if you could have an honest conversation with your mom, for example, what would you ask her?

That’s a really great question.

I tried to have an honest conversation with her and it was yesterday.

And I think that it’s because I’m doing these podcasts and I just wanted to be able to tell her, you know, the story that’s been in me for decades because I’ve also been writing a book for decades.

But every year something new pops up and it’s like, oh wow, this can go in there.

Because writing, you know, has really been my, my therapy.

If I could have an honest conversation, I would just want to know the details.

Not because I want her to feel ashamed or anything, if she would be honest, but she won’t be.

Yesterday I tried to talk about what I was going to bring up was that, you know, I’d be, I was going going to do something like this so that she would know and maybe she would be interested in hearing my side of things.

And she just shut it down.

And I said, OK, you don’t want to hear about anymore.

I won’t talk to you about this anymore.

I’m relieved in one sense.

But I really think because there are other people in that same city who have the same story, I think that there was something sinister, diabolical, unclean happening there and these girls were used and for some reason they don’t want to speak about it.

And that the shame, I’m sure that’s involved with that.

Another piece of her story is that at 8 years old, she was abducted by two Hispanic men and she got away from them.

I went to her best friend’s house for shelter and something happened there.

So very early on, things happened or she was looked at as prey, I guess, from a very early age.

And that changes the chemistry in the in the brain.

And she’s not the person that she would be had all of these things not happened to her.

Yeah, that’s, it’s really sad, tragic in in her own right.

Yeah, right.

Are there any questions that you have for your father?

I mean, I know you can’t ask.

Him these questions.

But.

Yeah, definitely.

I wish I could sit this man down.

My goodness.

What were you gonna tell me at age 17?

What was he gonna tell me?

Because he was Michelle.

He had a heavy accent.

I’m your dad or your father.

What?

No, you’re not.

Glenn is.

And Glenn was handsome.

So, you know, I kind of went into that.

You know, I didn’t know him.

I didn’t know what he looked like.

But my aunt was like, there’s no way he’s your father.

No way you’re ours.

I would ask you, how did this happen?

Why were you with my mother?

What was going on?

And then, of course, there’d be, you know, the medical questions.

I mean, he lived a long life.

He was well into his 80s.

What has helped you the most on this journey that you’ve been on?

Talking about it, I’m also a performer.

I sing, I’ve sang in bands, I write.

I’ve been writing since I was, gosh, in my teens.

So that’s a therapy in its own right.

Maybe I knew I was a little bit different and quirky and, you know, not like others.

And I feel as if I need to let people know very early on that some things happened to me in life and those who are strong enough stay around and stick with me.

And my family and and friends have been very embracing of me as I am.

And I’m just being honest.

I don’t hide much.

The beauty of my story is Belinda’s.

She’s a coach, she’s a teacher, and at the time when we met, I was also coaching, helping people to complete half marathons, full marathons.

She completed her first half marathon with me.

We’ve traveled to Mexico together, we’ve traveled to Canada together.

We see each other a couple times a year.

I saw her yesterday.

There’s a track and field event that happens here and she’s here with her, her children, her grandchildren.

So it’s become a beautiful story between the two of us where we’ve completely embraced one another.

I don’t know if you’ve ever if you have a ride or die, but I definitely feel like she’s my ride or die.

For years I thought I was looking for my father and what I was really looking for was approval, acceptance and belonging.

And happily along the way I found all of that.

Yes, there were tears and lots of therapy and hurt.

I’ve had challenges in life.

I’ve, you know, ran 5 marathons and 60 half marathons and all that time was used to let it go, let the ugly go.

Practical Advice for Parents and Those with DNA Discoveries

What advice do you have for a parent who is keeping adna surprise from their child?

I would encourage them to ask themselves one question.

Who are you protecting because sometimes we convince ourselves that keeping a secret protects our child when in reality it may be protecting us from a difficult conversation.

I understand that every family has its own circumstances and there may be reasons someone has waited, but today with the DNA testing.

So common secrets often have expiration dates, so when the truth comes out from the test from someone you love, it can add a layer of hurt because it feels like that trust was broken.

So it’s your story.

Yes, it’s your story.

Tell it with honesty, compassion, and love.

And your child may need time to process that, but we can process it.

We get through, we manage.

And what?

Advice do you have for someone who just uncovered adna surprise?

Give yourself grace.

You don’t have to have all the answers today, tomorrow, or even the next month.

When I learned my truth, I experienced lots of emotions.

There is curiosity, sadness, anger, relief, gratitude.

Sometimes it shows up and they’re, you know, just normal.

It’s a normal day.

Don’t feel pressured to make immediate decisions or contact people before you’re ready.

Take your time, learn the facts, and remember that every family has a story you may not know yet.

Don’t let Adna surprise define your worth.

It may change what you know about your past, but it doesn’t change who you are.

Nichelle, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast and sharing your story.

I think you have such a a wonderful perspective on this and and finding the joy in the relationship that you’ve been able to build with Belinda and I wish you the best as you continue to navigate this and learn more about yourself.

Thank you.

You’re amazing.

Thank you for doing what you do to keep us relevant.

Host Thanks Nichelle and Episode Production Credits

Thanks again to Nichelle for sharing her story.

If you have Adna surprise that you’d like to share, please submit your story at dnasurprises.com and for early ad free access to episodes, please join me over on patreon@patreon.com/DNA Surprises.

Until next time, DNA Surprises is hosted, produced and edited by me, Alexis Oursalt.

It is mixed and mastered by Josh Oursalt of Siren Recording Studios.