Bonus Episode | Processing Betrayal Trauma with Therapist Venessa De La Cruz

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Intro

One of the best things I ever did for myself was to register for the DNA Surprise Retreat last year.

It was shortly after I found out about my DNA surprise and my ethnicity shift.

The retreat was a place of community and friendship and understanding and learning that I was not alone.

I learned skills to manage the shock and I was learning to begin to heal.

I was so surprised that many people were going through the very same thing or similar circumstances.

I was surprised by the empathy and the care that I received.

I was surprised in a lot of other good ways.

Is there any way you can go to the retreat this year?

I can highly recommend it in every way.

Let your story begin.

Let your healing begin.

Speaker 2

Whether you just uncovered your DNA surprise or you've been on this journey for a while, the DNA Surprise Retreat is for you.

Registration is open now.

Join us from September 19th through the 22nd, 2024 just outside of Phoenix, AZ.

You can reserve your space at dnasurpriseretreat.com.

I'll see you there.

Thank you everyone for tuning into this bonus episode of DNA Surprises.

Today I am joined by Vanessa de la Cruz.

She is a licensed clinical social worker and certified EMDR and brain spotting therapist.

She is passionate about helping people learn how to heal from complex trauma as they're navigating multiple roles in their daily life.

The majority of her practice focuses on attachment trauma, religious trauma, grief, and reclaiming motherhood expectations.

Her approach is trauma focused using a combination of EMDR therapy, brain spotting, mindfulness and other evidence based practices.

Vanessa is going to be a facilitator at the DNA Surprise Retreat coming up in September and during our time together we will be discussing betrayal, traumas and how that has influenced our current relationships.

We'll also explore some of the parts of ourselves that feel hurt and discover ways to work with them to grieve and heal.

Welcome, Vanessa.

Speaker 3

Thank you for having.

Me thank you so much for joining us I'm so excited for the session at the retreat and thought that having a little chat beforehand would give people an idea of what to expect if they're thinking about attending the retreat or are just curious about this term betrayal trauma, which I honestly hadn't heard of until very recently so thanks for joining us for.

Sure.

I'm happy to share more, you know, for everyone who is thinking about this or who will be attending, right?

This, like you said, it's not a common term, although I think we'll hear it more often being said.

So I'm excited to talk about it because I think there's, you know, some ideas about what it is and it encompasses a lot of different things that I don't think people realize.

I know I kind of maybe stole your Thunder with a very robust intro, but I would love to learn more.

Can you share a little bit about yourself and how you got into this work?

Vanessa’s background

So I've been a practicing therapist since 2008.

Math is not a strong suit.

So it's been that many years.

I would say probably at the age of 13, I knew I wanted to be a psychologist.

I just didn't really realize like what the schooling for that like, looked like, right?

So, but I knew I wanted to help people not feel alone in their pain and that comes from my own experience.

And so it was not a straight shot to that major.

In college, I definitely took a different turn just because of parent expectations and things like that.

So I was an engineering student for a hot 2nd what quickly failed out of many of those classes.

So I landed here.

And here I am all of these years later.

But that's really how it started, was this passion to help people not feel alone in their experiences.

I graduated Graduate School in 2007, worked as a case manager for about a year, and then worked as a therapist since then.

And I've seen pretty much the lifespan.

But my practice now focuses mostly on adults.

So those young adults, like 18 all the way up.

I have clients in their 60s and 70s.

And so it's really focused on complex trauma.

So it's a big term.

But what my clients will walk in telling me that's going on is there's a lot of anxiety, there's a lot of depression symptoms.

They are struggling in feeling connected into their life, plugged in, right?

They just kind of feel like they're going through the motions.

They're exhausted.

Many of them have a medical diagnosis like chronic illnesses or autoimmune disorders that kind of correspond maybe with some of the other things they're experiencing.

And so that's what I'm going to hear first, right?

It's like I can't get it bad.

I'm so exhausted.

Life is really difficult and challenging.

Not a lot makes me happy or excited.

And then as we kind of sit and chat, there's a whole story that unfolds about how we got here.

So that's my practice.

And I have a physical office here in the valley in Gilbert.

And I also do online.

Yay COVID.

It helps me kind of figure out that space.

And when I'm not doing therapy and and running that business, I'm a mom.

I have two daughters that I am parenting.

One just turned 13.

So I'm entering those ever so fun teen.

Yeah, they're exciting and challenging, but, and then I have a she'll be 10 here just in a few weeks.

So I've got 2 rising preteen teenage girls that I'm trying to get through some of their challenges and those experiences.

I'm also married.

So you know, I'll on the the, the labels and the things that we do.

And then my mom has three doodles who may or may not pop up in the screen here, depending on where they're napping, how preferences are during our time together.

So yeah, that's a little bit about me.

Thank you for sharing and the things that you were saying about your clients the can't get out of bed.

What is betrayal trauma?

A lot of that depression, anxiety, I think it's something that a lot of people in the DNA Surprise community experience, especially in that initial aftermath.

And a lot of that is the result of betrayal trauma.

And like I mentioned at the top, I, this is kind of a relatively new term to me, but it's what your session is going to focus on and I think is at the core of so many of the issues that people in the DNA Surprise community face.

So can you explain what is betrayal trauma?

I think, you know, if people were to hear that phrase, they think their initial maybe idea about what that looked like would be, you know, someone, a spouse or a partner maybe being unfaithful in the relationship, right?

And they think that's probably the biggest context people will kind of put together with betrayal trauma.

But there really are multiple types of betrayal trauma, right?

There is betrayal trauma that happens with an apparent child relationship.

So there's a trust that's broken or violated or boundaries that are violated in a relationship.

You're gonna see it with institutions.

So maybe things like a church or the justice system for some families, right, who can experience a trauma there.

And so you're gonna see it on bigger institution type settings.

You're definitely gonna see it in that intimate personal relationship piece, right?

Whether it's a partner or spouse, that could occur as well.

And then you're going to see it in your other social types of relationships, whether it's peers or Co workers, right?

So the root of the, the whole word is just this betrayal.

And so whether it's, you know, I told my best friend the secret and then she went and told this other person, right?

And then it became this whole thing or whether it's something like what the community of DNA surprises realizes and uncovers through their journey that maybe what they had thought wasn't.

And so there is this initial like, Oh my goodness, what does this mean?

What does that mean about this relationship, right?

What does it mean about all sorts of things?

The trauma piece is really about how we take in that information and how we process that information.

So in general terms, in my office, trauma is just anything our brains weren't ready or prepared to handle at the time.

So you can think about that in terms of development level.

Like if it happens to us at 5 versus 15, we're going to see a situation differently, right?

But maybe you're an adult and you uncover, you know, that the person who raised you is not, in fact, biologically related to you, and you had no idea this thing that happened as an adult, You might have an adult sort of level of understanding at this point.

But what it's gonna do is pull all of the stuff that we experience from childhood into question, right?

And that becomes the challenging part of these experiences is just how this information is stored in our bodies, how we're taking it in what we remember, what we have to question and just sort of that uneasiness of what does this mean about me in this relationship and in our family system, right.

So there's a lot of complexity to betrayal trauma, but at its rude, it has to really do with relationship.

It's going to happen in a relationship of some sort, and it's going to be that violation that occurs in that relationship.

We put our trust in someone, right?

And then that trust was broken or violated in some sort of way.

That is such a good description.

I was definitely thinking of it from that parent child perspective or other kinds of relationships.

But taking a step back and looking at it like systemically medical providers, the justice system.

That's a really good point and something that I hadn't considered before.

Now you, you kind of touched on the trauma elements and you know, trauma's a very popular word now, right?

The difference between a betrayal and a trauma

It's definitely coming into the common vernacular, yes.

And I guess I was sort of wondering if you could talk about the difference between a betrayal.

So there there may be a time when somebody betrays you and maybe it's not traumatic.

I mean, I don't know if that's the case, but can you describe what the difference might be between, you know, being betrayed and a betrayal trauma?

Or I sort of think of it, we're going to kind of like sidestep this a minute, but in terms of like what I see, right?

So not all traumas will turn into PTSD symptoms, right, post traumatic stress disorder symptoms, but they can still be traumatic.

And I think that can be similar here where betrayals can be painful and they can be hurtful.

And I think a lot is going to have to do again with the age that we experience this traumatic peace experience or event, the support system we have in place to kind of help us through that experience, those resources, right?

A best friend may betray my trust, right?

And I might be upset and that might maybe even kind of hinder our relationship a little bit, but it might not stick with me.

I might be able to move on.

I may, you know, maybe just set boundaries in that relationship moving forward and I can kind of keep going.

When there's a trauma that occurs.

This is going to be at a very deep level.

And this goes back to just neurobiology, like it affects our bodies, cause trauma's stored in our nervous systems.

And so we're going to have somatic symptoms that come along with trauma.

It might be a stomach ache when you think about it, or you might notice that when you think about the event, your muscles just get really tense or that you get this lump in your throat.

Maybe a headache starts to, you know, kind of come on, there's going to be somebody reactivity to this experience.

And that's not the only thing, but that's a big telltale sign that I will ask my clients.

So you will say, I don't know if this is trauma.

And I'll say, what does your body tell you when you think about this experience?

What do you notice in your body, right?

And if there's still some something there, whatever it is, stomach ache, joint pain, then I'm going to kind of go down this trauma piece of like, OK, this is stored in a, what we would say maladaptive way in the brain and we need to help release it.

So it's not those somatic symptoms that we're having to deal with those triggers, right?

So again, not all betrayals might become trauma, but they certainly can.

And I think when we talk about relationship traumas, those are or relationship betrayals, those are more likely going to become traumatic, especially the closer we are in that relationship.

So a parent child versus a Co worker, right?

It can happen in the medical community.

Like medical trauma is a situation that we see often, right?

Doctors not listening or things like that or having to have surgeries if you didn't need to.

Like all sorts of things can happen in that way too.

That really can produce like post traumatic stress types of symptoms.

And so we're navigating in the trauma world, not just the experience, what came next in terms of, again, what supports maybe you had in place or didn't have in place to kind of help you and what is kind of there somatically too, but you kind of revisit that information.

That's a good, good delineation there.

Sometimes I think lately, maybe this is just my hot take, we tend to throw trauma onto like everything right now.

The manifestation of betrayal trauma

And don't get me wrong, I definitely consider my DNA surprised to be a trauma.

I do think I had some betrayal trauma going on the more that I learn about it.

But you know, it's kind of nice to hear.

OK, well, not every every betrayal is a trauma.

And this is kind of how it affects us.

Can you go a little bit deeper into some of the manifest of a betrayal trauma and how that comes up?

You mentioned like a stomach ache, a headache.

What are other things that people maybe should look for in helping to determine if maybe they're dealing with some traumatic effects?

So the different ways that I, and this is not me, this is just what I've learned during EMDR, but the different things that I kind of look for when we're talking trauma in my office is what are the negative beliefs that we have that are related to this experience, right?

And it's usually about the self versus the other person.

There might be thoughts about the other person too, but it's truly something that we take in.

And this also has to do with age and development too, right?

Usually like, am I lovable or am I good enough, right?

So there's different categories of these negative beliefs that we kind of will run through.

Some of the big, I guess most common, I would say negative beliefs that I see are that I'm not good enough, I'm not lovable.

I mean, I don't deserve good things or to be loved.

I can't keep myself safe.

So those sorts of things we'll see.

And those thoughts aren't maybe something that they would, you know, a client would say like, oh, I think about that all the time, but you might see it in their behaviours or the way that they interact with somebody, right?

So they may not speak up when they need to, or they may be quote UN quote, people pleasers, right?

Because they just want to be OK in this dynamic.

And so they do what they need to to sort of keep that sort of copacetic relationship going.

So we're looking for those negative beliefs, right?

How we believe or what we believe about ourselves outside of the schematic.

We're looking for the feelings attached.

I always tell clients like, you're not going to have emotion without having a physiological response.

They go together, right?

And so if I'm having a pet in my stomach, what emotions going with that pet in my stomach?

Feeling the anxiety, is it confusion?

Is it hurt?

We kind of want to look at the emotion behind it too.

We're definitely going to start to see relationship trust issues maybe though feeling maybe closed off from opening up.

Vulnerability is really hard when we've had betrayal traumas in relationships because the vulnerability in of itself leaves room for us to potentially be hurt.

And so we just experienced this thing and it's like, no thanks.

Let's not do that again, right?

So we may like shy away from relationships are kind of just shut down in that way or just not be open to new relationships or trying to rebuild relationships.

You're going to see it probably in ways you don't expect.

I would say like those are probably things that feel sort of obvious, right?

But trauma can manifest in lots of different ways.

I will say my clients don't look like they have mental health challenges, like it's not a look, right?

They're very well educated, they're successful, they're high functioning in the world.

They're running businesses.

You know, they're taking kids to and from soccer practice.

Like they are doing all the things that the outside world would be like, hey, I want to be like them.

They have it together, but on the inside or internally or behind closed doors, they don't feel connected.

They don't feel like they have good friendships.

They feel alone or isolated.

And so those are the things that I always tell clients like there is no look to this, There's no look to trauma because we're taught to, to keep it together.

And so we, we keep going and we keep moving, but we're going to see lots of things and most common are going to be those physical ailments just because of that, like neurobiology piece to this, right?

So headaches, stomach aches, joint pain, fibromyalgia is a diagnosis that like still the medical community is not sure why it happens, but we just know there's a lot of joint pain, aches and things like that inflammation in the body.

And they've had several clients with that diagnosis and it's related to their trauma.

And then I'm not saying like this cures all things, I'm just saying your body is going to take a hit from these experiences.

And then that social piece for sure, right?

Like maintaining and building relationships is going to be a whole lot harder when we experience betrayal traumas.

Yeah.

And it's interesting you said that sometimes.

Well, the trust piece for sure.

And then sometimes it comes up in ways that we don't expect.

And I don't know if anyone listening can identify with this, but I will admit, especially the first year after my DNA surprise, I would look at other families and like, if there was one kid that looked a little bit different, I'd be like, their parents are totally hiding something from them, Like, And it was like an intrusive thought, you know, because it's not like I want to walk around thinking about that.

But it really did affect my trust and belief in parents, I think just generally, yeah.

That is a a great point because they think that happens or that those are the things that show up right where, you know, we don't necessarily think twice about it sometimes.

I struggled with infertility for many years and seeing pregnant people would, you know, make me cringe inside, right?

And and what I have at the time said like I'm being traumatized by this experience.

No, I went right.

But knowing what I know now and kind of looking back in all of these things for sure, right.

But again, those are those little things that will kind of sleeping.

You might see it play out within your own parent child relationship with your own child's, right.

There might be maybe some distance that starts to happen without even you realizing what's going on.

But because internally so much is going on, we might be putting up a little bit of a wall in this relationship, not on purpose per SE, but just because so much other stuff is happening in our systems and we're just trying to manage it.

And then looking back in, you know, a few years, you're like, oh, didn't even realize that that's what I was doing.

But I kind of think of those domains of like the physical domain, the spiritual domain, the mental, like how we feel about think about ourselves domain and that relational piece, right, of where these kind of trauma symptoms are going to lie.

And chances are we're going to see some in all of those areas at some point.

Yeah, yeah.

Wow, so I know that we will dive much deeper into this at your session, but I'm curious, how do people fix this?

How to rebuild trust after a big betrayal

How do people work through this and how do they rebuild trust after experiencing such a big betrayal?

Isn't that the $1,000,000 question right?

Give us the cure.

Give us the cure, Vanessa.

If only there was one thing.

This is a question that I get asked a lot just because of the nature of my job.

And every client who comes to see me wants to know what is the remedy?

Really kind of funny, my nurse clients, I love them, but they're so used to having like a prescription, right?

Of like, we do this, this and this and that does this.

And so they are like, OK, so tell me what to do.

And it's like that's it's not that easy.

So I think First off, acknowledge the hurt.

I think sometimes depending on the experience and depending on our resources and like what supports we have in place, we will just try to suck it down and move on.

Whether it's our family, culture or society that tells us like, pick yourself up by your bootstraps, keep on moving, right?

There isn't time for this.

Like whatever those things are, we just try to move on from it and they will just tell you.

No one has ever successfully, that I know of, run away from their trauma and been a whole healthy human.

It comes back.

Even if you are capable of locking it away for a while, it will come out somehow.

So just acknowledging that this thing happened, this happened and it hurts and I'm sad or I'm angry.

We've got to acknowledge that this trauma, this painful experience exists in the 1st place and giving it that space.

So that would be if there was a step by step thing, I would say that would be The thing is like give yourself that room.

Just feel into that.

Therapy is the great tool.

I mean, you know, it's what I do and all, but if you can find that support, right?

And so therapy isn't the only way, but support groups, right?

Your podcast like things that are out here that can help build that community piece with other people who have experienced this, right?

The worst thing I feel like in trauma in general is then feeling like you're the only person who knows what this is like.

If you're the.

Only person going through something like this and one, that's simply not true, but two, that just creates more pain when we feel like we're the only ones.

And so as hard as it might be, reaching out for that support in spaces that feel safe, but that are also going to provide other people who are going to get it.

Maybe not the same exact thing, but you know that when you walk into that space or get online in that space, you're going to be hearing from people who are like, yeah, OK, they're going to know some of these things that I'm going through.

So it's important to have those people in your life as much as possible where some of those, like somatic things that we talked about that end up kind of getting stored in the body.

There's lots of great tools out there now because trauma is the buzzword.

It also means that there's lots of information about it, right?

And that we're learning about somatic exercises and polyvagal exercises and things that can really help our nervous systems sort of reset.

And so I would encourage people to, it could be simple stretching, yoga.

I hated yoga for the longest time.

I mean, it was just like, I've got like my grocery list running through my head, like all of these different things.

But I had one amazing yoga teacher who just would say, can you just lean into that 5% more, 10% more?

And it wasn't an all or nothing practice.

And so finding that way to help release some of this from your body, even if it's just 10%.

And we just like turn the valve and release the pressure a tiny bit.

So whether it's exercise or nutrition or like combining lots of different things, cold plunging is a thing, right?

Always check with your medical provider before doing any of those things.

But lots of things can have benefits to the physical body that experiences the trauma.

And so again, this isn't A1 size fits all approach to the fixing.

And actually I would encourage you to not say that you need to be fixed.

Cause words matter to the brain, right?

I have a client who's the mechanic and he would often want to say that word.

I was like, we don't fix people, we fix things.

Yeah, that's such a good point.

And language is so powerful.

So powerful and that negative cognition piece, right?

That's part of the trauma.

So if I'm broken, it's just going to reinforce a lot of these other things.

But if I have a wound that needs to be healed, that just hits differently, right?

And there's a different level of hope that comes from healing versus needing to be fixed.

The importance of integrating trauma into your life

Yes, I love that.

I love that.

Yeah, I always try to say that I'm not trying to get over my DNA surprise.

I'm trying to integrate it because it's something that happened.

I can't undo it.

It's not.

Going to ever go away, right?

It's not going to be different.

Right, it's.

Just gonna be something that you have to, like you said, integrate into now into the life and and what does that look like here in this space?

Yeah, right.

Thank you for sharing that.

It's so important.

And, you know, I was excited about your session from the first time that we spoke, but now I'm even more excited after this conversation.

So kind of at a high level, can you share some of the things that you're going to go into with attendees at the retreat?

Oh, I have been thinking about this so much because I really do feel like it could be a whole weekend sort of workshop because there's so many components to trauma and then the betrayal kind of trauma that we're going to be talking about.

But just like what we've talked about today, it's going to be a deeper dive into some of these areas and what we can do.

And I really look at trauma and my clients experiences through the lens of IFS, which is internal family systems, another, you know, phrase that is kind of popping up as parts work, right, parts of self.

We'll talk more about that and how that shows up because again, depending on when you found out about your betrayal experience, you might have been 15 and uncovering it for the first time, or you may have been eight, right?

And so developmentally there's going to be different things that you experienced and those parts of you might need different things to heal.

And so we'll kind of go through some of that developmental piece as well, but we're going to talk a lot about what we're talking here of like giving ourselves space and permission to grieve is not the most fun thing we want to do.

My client's least favorite thing to do in the office is like, pull out the grief work, right?

But it is the most beautiful work we will do if we give ourselves the space and the permission to do so.

And it's not because we feel the pain.

That's not the fun part.

It's what we get to learn not just about ourselves, but about this experience and maybe the people around us as a result.

Right.

So we're going to take in a deep dive.

We're going to go through a lot of these different things, some of the buzzy sort of words that we're hearing a lot about in the trauma world.

You know, what does it mean to be, you know, a trauma focused like lens and see these things through or polyvagal and all sorts of things.

And they're all important things, but a lot of people just hear about it and don't really know what to do with all of this information.

So like why cold plunging is a helpful thing, right, versus like yoga?

And they do different things, but they're both helpful.

So we'll do a lot of that stuff and then we'll do some parts work.

And what I'm really excited about is hopefully giving everyone the opportunity to write the part of them who experienced their DNA surprise, a love letter from the self.

It's a practice that Elizabeth Gilbert, who's an author, does.

And I'm excited to share it with all of them because it really is such a cool thing to see that does that shift right and wherever we are.

And they may write another letter in a year from now.

And even gain more sort of perspective.

And so just giving them the tool to be able to do that for themselves is something that I'm super excited to see happen in that space.

I'm so excited and your session fits so beautifully into that first day that we have planned because the first session will be with Megan Irwin, who's a fellow therapist, and she's going to do kind of a deep dive into that IFS, parts work, all of that.

So then people will be able to take that knowledge going into your session.

And then after your session, we're going to have some gentle movement which will tie in so beautifully to some of these things that you're talking about.

It just feels.

So it's almost like we planned it, but it feels so.

Come together, it's.

Coming together so beautifully.

It's so I'm just so excited and really appreciate you taking the time to talk about this with me today.

And then also to put together such a beautiful presentation for September.

And I, I can't wait for people to experience it.

If people are in Arizona or wherever you are licensed, would like to work with you or learn more or follow you on social media, where can they find you?

So I am only licensed in Arizona.

So if you are here and are sort of in the surrounding area, so my office is physically in Gilbert.

I see clients throughout the state, though.

I have clients in Flagstaff and Tucson, like all sorts of places.

On Instagram, you can follow me at the EMDR social worker.

So that's me there.

They do have a website and it's www.ignitehopellc.com.

And so my practice is Ignite Hope Counselling.

And so you can find lots of information there about me and my practice.

You can look me up on Psychology Today by my name, Vanessa de la Cruz, spelled with an E.

Just, you know, my mom had to go there and make it a little bit different.

So everyone usually gets it wrong, but that's OK.

But that's how you'll see it show up there.

So you can follow or find me there.

But yeah, I've got some space for some new clients right now.

I'm also launching some intensives with clients, which is a good way for people who don't live so close to still get the in person therapy model.

We just do it for a chunk of time, for like 3 to four hours, sometimes a couple of days in a row, just kind of depending on the needs.

But that's where you can find me.

Awesome, and I will link all of this in the show notes too for people who are interested in finding you.

And your Instagram handle totally reminded me.

I need to have you back on to discuss EMDR because I'm constantly singing the praises of EMDR.

It has been so instrumental in my healing.

But we will leave that as a cliffhanger.

Maybe I'll have you back on to talk about it.

We can.

Talk about all of these things forever, so whenever you want me back, I will be happy to.

Awesome.

Vanessa, thank you so much for joining me today.

I can't wait to see you in September.

And if anyone is interested in attending the retreat and getting more of this information in person, you can sign up at dnasurpriseretreat.com.

Thank you.